New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

ryanw wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:59 am
I was actually referring to traveling with my bike in my Bike Box Alan (see pic).
Hi ryanw,

Thanks for the photo. I don't know anyone who's tried the SystemSix in a BBA. The fork is truly limited to 50 degrees, so if it must go 90 to fit, then obviously it's a no-go.

If it could fit at 0 degrees (straight ahead) or between +/-50 degrees then do you think it could it be a possibility?

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

by Weenie


DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:10 am
mrlobber wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:54 am

Very interesting. Would that suggest that for many triathlon bikes the single-bottle-behind-the-saddle wouldn't in fact be a drag-neutral solution? I'd imagine that with a moving body, airflow around that part should be pretty similar for all the bikes?
It’s the best of the available placement options with regular shaped bottles. Ultimately a frame mounted bottle is going to nominally increase FA while the saddle-mounted position sits in a pocket of relatively low pressure.
Hi TobinHatesYou,

Correct. The low pressure zone where the bottle should produce the least drag is high, more in the wake behind the rider's body, less in the flow between the rider's legs.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

ryanw
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

DamonRinard wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:43 am
ryanw wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:59 am
I was actually referring to traveling with my bike in my Bike Box Alan (see pic).
Hi ryanw,

Thanks for the photo. I don't know anyone who's tried the SystemSix in a BBA. The fork is truly limited to 50 degrees, so if it must go 90 to fit, then obviously it's a no-go.

If it could fit at 0 degrees (straight ahead) or between +/-50 degrees then do you think it could it be a possibility?

Cheers,
Damon
Hi Damon,

I'm actually packing my S5 this week since I'm off getting married in Maui, and of course the bike is coming with me!

I'll check to see if the forks can be askew and if they'll fit, but from memoery, I've tried this before and it was a no go.

It really goes to show how much thought is required when producing these bikes.

Fingers crossed for you guys and all the eventual SuperSix owners, that this can be resolved somehow, since for me, it woud be a deal breaker.
'16 Cervelo S5 - 6650g
'17 Focus Mares Force 1 - 7,800g

Svetty
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:06 pm
Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country

by Svetty

I have a BBA and have used it multiple times with a number of bikes. If you have a small or medium frame it should be fine with the fork at 0 degrees and the stem detached from the steerer. A larger frame - say 56 or above might well be an issue....

refthimos
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

gwilson wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:36 am
Following a lot of reading, I've put an order in for the SystemSix Carbon Dura-Ace at my LBS [...] Hopefully will have pictures and first impressions in the next week!
Your LBS said it would have the bike for you in just a week?
EVO | 5.38kg
SystemSix | On order
TCR Advanced SL Disc | Build in process
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 P2Max NG | Enve 7.8 | Alto Disc
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

ryanw
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

Svetty wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:17 pm
I have a BBA and have used it multiple times with a number of bikes. If you have a small or medium frame it should be fine with the fork at 0 degrees and the stem detached from the steerer. A larger frame - say 56 or above might well be an issue....
It's also to do with the actual restraints on the bike.

If the fork is packed at 0 degrees, the frame can't be secured flat in the box, there’s a gap from where the fork lifts the frame. This then puts pressure on the fork, since the straps are pulling the bike against the fork leg. A very high risk of snapping the fork if the box is roughly handled / dropped.

I've already inquired with a mate and can get me a DA Di2 SystemSix for £7,250, I genuinely am very close to buying one, but if a 56 can't fit in a BBA, it's a 100% no go for me unfortunately.
'16 Cervelo S5 - 6650g
'17 Focus Mares Force 1 - 7,800g

Bluechip
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:04 am

by Bluechip

5 different bikes in three years but you're married to one particular case. It's a nice case but there are others out there.

Stueys
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

Bluechip wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:18 pm
5 different bikes in three years but you're married to one particular case. It's a nice case but there are others out there.
On my Marmotte flight a few weeks back we had 12 bike boxes, of which 8 were bba. Its by far the most widely used one I see. Be good to see if there’s a way to make it work.

willmac
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:33 am

by willmac

Stueys wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:29 pm
Bluechip wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:18 pm
5 different bikes in three years but you're married to one particular case. It's a nice case but there are others out there.
On my Marmotte flight a few weeks back we had 12 bike boxes, of which 8 were bba. Its by far the most widely used one I see. Be good to see if there’s a way to make it work.
Agree, it’s going to be annoying if a new box is needed but I would have thought that aftermarket products, ie - box manufacturers, were meant to develop to accommodate new bikes, not the other way round.

refthimos
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

refthimos wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:22 am

Any way to check to see if these are the right numbers? Rather than 7.75kg, the first 56cm SystemSix Carbon Dura-Ace that I've seen weighed in the field came in at 18lb 7oz, or approx 8.36kg, for a difference of .61kg, or 1.34 pounds. Seems like a lot to be off, and would seem to indicate that even the top-of-the line Hi-Mod Di2 model will come in well over 18 pounds.
Finally got to see one in the flesh. Looks great, though I have to say, this bike screams for Di2/eTap so you can hide the cables on the front end. This one also came with 25c Continental GP4000s, so not sure what happened to the 23c Rubino Speeds that I would have expected and still show up on the Cannondale website. Also learned little about why some of these bikes are being delayed - mine seems to now show in the system at October 27. So could remain a long wait.

Moving from wait to weight, I am feeling a little better about the latter. This one is a 54cm bike, and even with the larger Continental tires, spoke protectors and full steer tube & spacers (to be clear, I don't think any of these items adds much weight, the bike came in just under 18 lbs at 17.98 lbs (or 8.16 kg).

The Hi-Mod bike I will be getting should have a lighter frameset, paint, tires, rotors, cassette and chain (the last three are all Ultegra rather than D-A on this model), though I'm not sure about the crankset, since the SISL2 on my bike is lighter, but this one uses a Spidering rather than the NG ECO + rings.

Image

Image

Image
EVO | 5.38kg
SystemSix | On order
TCR Advanced SL Disc | Build in process
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 P2Max NG | Enve 7.8 | Alto Disc
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1881
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The mechanical shifting, hydro hoods are like balloons!

Karvalo
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Hi,
I've done something over 150 miles on a demo bike this week (Standard mod mechanical DA, Knot wheels, Vision bar) and I'm pretty impressed. There's some stuff it does well, some stuff it does exceptionally well, and a couple of niggles that would be easy enough to change.

First, it's stiff. Solid in the BB and headtube so climbing out of the saddle actually feels lively enough despite the weight. Picked up a KOM on a 150ft rise for what it's worth, and some generally decent results on longer gradients. Next, it's quiet. Both from cables etc but also wind noise. I'll need to pay attention when I'm back on my own bike tomorrow but the frame and wheels don't seem to make any discernable wind noise at high speed. Not a very scientific aero test but hopefully a good sign :P

What it does brilliantly is corner and sprint. I don't remember being on a bike that gives as much instant confidence to carry speed through corners. It's not as exciting as my R5, but for fast entry, fast exit and mid corner stability it is so, so good. I went and checked the geo and it is quite similar to the Evo but with a slightly longer FC and fractionally different rake/trail which makes sense for the stability, and the chunky headtube gives the steering precision I expected from it. The rest of it though is how good it is at deadening road buzz. Maybe it's the Save stays, maybe it's just the frame weight and wall thickness but it stays planted on the tarmac even when the road surface sucks. It's the same for sprinting, it's incredibly planted at max effort. So much so I intentionally rode the 'crap line' at one of our local group ride sprint points, where the cracks in the road normally buck the bike and suck speed from you, and it was pretty much a non event. Wasn't comfortable, but the back wheel kept traction all the time and the power kept going into the road.

I'm not a fan of the handlebar - it seems like the cable routing of the Vision bar (exits right at the back) is the worst match for the SystemSix for getting the hydro cables cleanly through the guide and into the frame. It's not difficult to route, just seems like a bar with a routing hole underneath and further forwards would leave you with much less visible brake hose. It also seem to have too narrow a centre section to fit a K-Edge out front mount. Maybe Damon knows of a good option for a mount? In contrast the Knot bar on the HM has very clean routing in practice, and a solid, aluminium Garmin mount. Total opposite of the plastic bit of crap on the new Propel :wink: (The HM we have is too big for me, but a Cat1 colleague has ridden both and says it's noticeably more responsive). Lastly for now, the Prologo bartape sucks but the Dimension saddle is very good - YMMV!

Couple of photos, including proof that I tried it out on some decent climbs.
Image
Image
Image
Image

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fa63
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

by fa63

That fluro paint job looks really good.

FLtrooper
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:26 am
Location: SFL

by FLtrooper

She looks great! I just wish I could afford one :(

:)
:beerchug:

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wheelbuilder
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

That is a lot of cable and hose showing. A Madone it isn't. Not that the Madone is the greatest or anything, but man did they get integration right. Unless you are the mechanic.

by Weenie


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