New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Jugi
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

Well, that marketing material definetly had two sides to it.

Taylor Phinney's SystemSIX's seatpost started slipping on the cobbles of Paris when he was in the leading group. Neutral support couldn't fix it. EF-Drapac's mechanic couldn't fix it, so a bike change was needed.

Seemed like Phinney's attempt to get back to the leaders would be desperate move. But he got there. So even if the seatpost slips, the bike moves like a bullet.

by Weenie


Bordcla
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

Jugi wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:48 pm
Well, that marketing material definetly had two sides to it.

Taylor Phinney's SystemSIX's seatpost started slipping on the cobbles of Paris when he was in the leading group. Neutral support couldn't fix it. EF-Drapac's mechanic couldn't fix it, so a bike change was needed.

Seemed like Phinney's attempt to get back to the leaders would be desperate move. But he got there. So even if the seatpost slips, the bike moves like a bullet.
He was on a Supersix Evo at that point after the swap.


CAAD8FRED
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 pm

by CAAD8FRED

Image

Looks like running the Metron 5D looks five times better with no spacers.

Matt28NJ
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:16 am

by Matt28NJ

The picture on the right makes me wonder what happens when water gets in that opening and into the frame.

CAAD8FRED
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 pm

by CAAD8FRED

Matt28NJ wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:43 am
The picture on the right makes me wonder what happens when water gets in that opening and into the frame.
My main reason for looking at the Metron was that I wanted to get the Ult Mech, but with an aero cockpit. The 5D is about $500 so unless the Knot system is cheaper I'd go with the 5D. Maybe someone could 3d print a metal or plastic spacer that would blend.

DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 348
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

CAAD8FRED wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:08 am
Image

Looks like running the Metron 5D looks five times better with no spacers.
Hi CAAD8FRED,

Great photos. Here's a link to the related article, for those who are interested to read/see more: https://bikerumor.com/2018/05/04/giro10 ... er-drapac/

Left: With Cable Keeper. Right: Without Cable Keeper.

The Cable Keeper is necessary when using stems other than the Knot stem. It keeps the cables from rubbing on the sharp edge of the carbon head tube. Don't let the cables rub on the edge, or they'll wear excessively. (When using a Knot stem, the plastic cover keeps the cables from rubbing. The Cable Keeper is not needed when using a Knot stem.)

Cheers,
Damon

P.S. Water easily gets in the head tube, with or without the Cable Keeper or Knot stem, just like with most bikes. It runs down and out the bottom. All cavities have a drain hole, so no matter where the water may go it always has a way out.
-DGR
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

Matt28NJ
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:16 am

by Matt28NJ

Damon, a pleasure having you on here!

I race for a Cannondale sponsored team, and it's new bike time! I'm dying to see if we have access to the new bike... but the CAAD12 Ultegra looks fantastic.

CAAD8FRED
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 pm

by CAAD8FRED

DamonRinard wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:57 am
CAAD8FRED wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:08 am
Image

Looks like running the Metron 5D looks five times better with no spacers.
Hi CAAD8FRED,

Great photos. Here's a link to the related article, for those who are interested to read/see more: https://bikerumor.com/2018/05/04/giro10 ... er-drapac/

Left: With Cable Keeper. Right: Without Cable Keeper.

The Cable Keeper is necessary when using stems other than the Knot stem. It keeps the cables from rubbing on the sharp edge of the carbon head tube. Don't let the cables rub on the edge, or they'll wear excessively. (When using a Knot stem, the plastic cover keeps the cables from rubbing. The Cable Keeper is not needed when using a Knot stem.)

Cheers,
Damon

P.S. Water easily gets in the head tube, with or without the Cable Keeper or Knot stem, just like with most bikes. It runs down and out the bottom. All cavities have a drain hole, so no matter where the water may go it always has a way out.
-DGR
Thanks Damon! I didn’t seem the keeper on photos of models with the 4D but this is good to know

DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 348
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

Hi Matt28NJ,

Great to hear! You might have two good options there.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 348
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

Hi CAAD8FRED,

I just checked the models on our website https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 4cac8e7b38 and the Cable Keeper is indeed rather stealth, but it's there! On some models it seems to blend in with the paint, and on others it's included with a few spacers, so visually easy to miss.

Side story: The Cable Keeper wasn't yet in production when the EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale pros got their SystemSixes, so we 3D printed a bunch for the team, but it's clear from the photos you posted, some rider's bikes didn't get assembled with it. :-( Not a problem for the pros, as the cables wear pretty slowly, so there should be plenty of time for the mechanics to change them.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

CAAD8FRED
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 pm

by CAAD8FRED

DamonRinard wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:09 pm
Hi CAAD8FRED,

I just checked the models on our website https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 4cac8e7b38 and the Cable Keeper is indeed rather stealth, but it's there! On some models it seems to blend in with the paint, and on others it's included with a few spacers, so visually easy to miss.

Side story: The Cable Keeper wasn't yet in production when the EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale pros got their SystemSixes, so we 3D printed a bunch for the team, but it's clear from the photos you posted, some rider's bikes didn't get assembled with it. :-( Not a problem for the pros, as the cables wear pretty slowly, so there should be plenty of time for the mechanics to change them.

Cheers,
Damon
Does the cable keeper on the prodctuion models act sort of like a spacer, or does it stay independent of turning action?
Also a little unrelated, what is the plan for a tail light for when you're out on the road?

DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 348
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

Hi CAAD8FRED,

Yep, the Cable Keeper is like a spacer. It's about 5 mm tall and has a tiny clamp bolt to tighten it onto the fork, so it turns when you steer.

We don't have a branded taillight, but there are a few aftermarket lights that will attach to a long chord seatpost. Some riders also mount lights on the seatstay, which is not much longer chord than many. You have some choices here.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

bikesrdangerousmmk
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:54 am

by bikesrdangerousmmk

Damon, any thoughts on the Hed vanquish 9s with this frame? I currently use jet 6 plus wheels on a semi-aero-ish allez sprint frame and have no trouble riding them in all sorts of conditions. I have trouble picturing how much more difficult to handle the Hed vanquish 9 would be, and if leaning toward a new aero frame, I’m wondering if “full aero” is not the way to go.

The dimensions appear similar to the knot wheels and the Hed patent would make me think they perform similarly.

Also, how would you say the perceived stiffness of the knot front end performs for someone around 180lbs and caring primarily about sprinting?

DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 348
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

Hi bikesrdangerousmmk,

Haven't tested HEDs (other than the Jet listed in the white paper), so can't really say. Note that most good aero wheels have similar drag between reasonable yaw angles. The lowest drag wheels mainly separate from the others at higher yaw, exactly where the side force causes some riders handling issues.

But if you train on deep wheels your reflexes get better and your reactions make them less of an issue, so more likely to give you an advantage if you can handle them.

One nice thing about the Knot 64 wheels is they are relatively less sensitive to changes in tire width than many other wheels, whose aerodynamics are sometimes spoiled with wider tires. So if you change tire widths sometimes, then you'll retain more of the good performance with the Knot 64s. That, and they come with the SystemSix if you buy a complete bike. :-)

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

by Weenie


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