New Time frame to be announced

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

30000 miles is not some amazing benchmark. It’s 3-4 years of riding for many of us. Why would you expect non-Time frames to fail this early?

by Weenie


seaneT1
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by seaneT1

You are calling this thing an aston martin????? Just because it is made by hand in France and has a ridiculously high price tag doesn't mean ANYTHING!!!! I know, I have a Bottecchia, handmade in Italy and weighs at around 1050 gr WITH the seatpost in size M...and it is also aero, not a lightweight frame, the lightweight comes just bellow the 700 gr for the frame...and I would never dare to say that Bottecchia is like owning a Ferrari because it isn't, and the same applies to Time!!!! aston martin my ass....

spartan
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by spartan

there was a thread several years ago that debunked TIME woven rtm frame tech. essentially this tech was developed for the us defense industry in the 70's sold to the french company in the 80's. defence industry moved to pre-preg carbon layup superior/stronger/lighter. bmc tried the same approach epic failure. you can not build a 700 gm frame with this approach. period. why are they embarrassing themselves with the superlight marketing? buy time bikes for there quirky design/made in france.


btw the time RXR had the worse road feel of bikes from that first generation aero looking bikes from that era. they had numerous quality control issues.
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TonyM
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by TonyM

seaneT1 wrote:You are calling this thing an aston martin????? Just because it is made by hand in France and has a ridiculously high price tag doesn't mean ANYTHING!!!! I know, I have a Bottecchia, handmade in Italy and weighs at around 1050 gr WITH the seatpost in size M...and it is also aero, not a lightweight frame, the lightweight comes just bellow the 700 gr for the frame...and I would never dare to say that Bottecchia is like owning a Ferrari because it isn't, and the same applies to Time!!!! aston martin my ass....
No offense but ...
Bottecchia is more like an mid range Alfa Romeo...
Last edited by TonyM on Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Isn't Pinarello F10 X-Light about same weight and cost even more?
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dgasmd
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by dgasmd

Frankly, I think most of you are missing the point or extrapolating way too much. What saw and heard was a tiny French company that still makes carbon bikes presenting their new bike they market for climbing mostly at a relatively low weight. Your definition of "low weight, awesome, best, stiffest, etc" may vary depending on your expectations. Drop the comparisons to others. All it does is try to force this bike to be defined by another, which is ludicrous at best. Amusing to read though.....

They are not the stiffest, the nicest looking, the fastest, the most comfortable, the most coveted, the lowest weight, the most popular, the most commonly seen, etc. Buy it if you like it, and if not move on to the one you like.

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Ringo
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by Ringo

This fork is ugly. I accept that this is not a gimmick and actually gives a smooth ride, but it’s still ugly.
I expected something far more better.
Having in mind some iconic Time frames, this is a disaster.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

muti wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:16 pm
...Time uses a headset design without compression plug, so for the weenies (after all this is weight weenies site ),they are some savings there. Personally I care more about the dynamic qualities and the safety of the frame than the weight itself. BUT, I really think that TIME SHOULD offer a seatpost with at least 15mm setback as an option for the 01 frame!
Time uses a "compression plug", it is alloy and fits right where the stem gets clamped. It just doesn't serve dual duty as an anchor for a top cap for applying preload to the headset bearings. They're not saving weight by using it since the preload system is not absent but rather in their proprietary "Quikset" headset, which I affectionately refer to as "Slowset". It's heavy with a metal threaded collar bonded to the fork. But it looks like they've abandoned that for this new model, at least I can't see evidence of it from the picture. Probably makes sense if they were going for light weight. Poor Time... bit like a lost lamb. Their entire being rests on their RTM manufacturing, but seems there are better, cheaper and more efficient methods of carbon manufacturing these days. I'm staring at a new Scylon in front of me right now which I'm about to build for someone, with the Aktiv fork, just waiting on a couple things. As much as I stare at it, the graphics are just not doing it for me at all. Looks to be a really well made frame however, and it's beefy as all get out... right up there with my C60 and Koppenberg. Any geometry charts on this new frame yet? What I will never get is how any manufacturer feels that chainstays should be the same length whether it's their smallest frame or their largest frame. And shorter than any of the minimum chainstay specs provided by either Shimano (410mm) or Campagnolo (405 mech; 410 disc). The chainstays on the Scylon are all 404mm across all their sizes, making for a very short wheelbase not to mention sub-optimal for perfect performance from the groupsets. This is a XXL frameset I'll be building up. I'm interested to try it out since it seems much more solid than the last Time I worked on which was a complete noodle. But this fork... can't get used to it's shape, and the graphics are just horrible.

As to the lack of an offset seatpost, I understand that they've factored that into the geometry, with a slacker seattube than normal for any given size... much like the Cervelo RCA did. Personally, I much prefer the offset seatpost as larger frames already have a fairly slack seat tube and with tight geometry slackening it further it can start interfering with the rear wheel. And I just like the looks of an offset post on a road bike much more than a zero offset post. I need to see the geo chart at this point. But just looking at the frame... certainly nothing exciting that I can see. Their graphics are so blah.

I watched the marketing video for the new "climber" frame... they say the "Aktiv" technology is available as an option for more comfort and control while descending, or something to that effect. To me, that translates to real world speak as "you might want to have a bit more substantial fork up front for descending any technical stuff". As much as I can appreciate the lightest stiffest frame possible for going up, as long as I have to come down the other side, those kinds of frames just don't work for me. Maybe if you're a 150lbs/68kg or so... fine.

I guess we'll see all the details this week, both for this frame and the new Colnago.
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AJS914
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by AJS914

I don't get why this frame is generating such visceral reactions.
Just because it is made by hand in France and has a ridiculously high price tag doesn't mean ANYTHING!!!!
How is Time priced any differently than Pinarello, Colnago, S-Works, or any other top tier frame?

I've had 3 Times pass through my hands (actually I still have two of them in the garage). They are the most well made frames I've ever touched. The manufacturing quality is fantastic. My C59 is great but I think Time trumps Colnago in quality. I've seen Times on display at two high end bike shops in the last couple of years. The finishes and carbon weave was gorgeous. They look much better in person than on web pages. One dealer was absolutely raving about the Aktiv fork. I would definitely count myself as a potential future Time buyer.

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

seaneT1 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:11 pm
You are calling this thing an aston martin????? Just because it is made by hand in France and has a ridiculously high price tag doesn't mean ANYTHING!!!! I know, I have a Bottecchia, handmade in Italy and weighs at around 1050 gr WITH the seatpost in size M...and it is also aero, not a lightweight frame, the lightweight comes just bellow the 700 gr for the frame...and I would never dare to say that Bottecchia is like owning a Ferrari because it isn't, and the same applies to Time!!!! aston martin my ass....
So much anger.

Why?
Exp001 || Other projects in the works.

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ak47
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by ak47

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:09 pm
30000 miles is not some amazing benchmark. It’s 3-4 years of riding for many of us. Why would you expect non-Time frames to fail this early?
I've seen "premium" monocoque frames cracked just after few thousand miles. My professional friend who spent last few season on S-Works (he raced for Tinkoff and now he's with Bora) says when he gets a new training frame mid season or just gets on his race bike the difference after going from a frame used for over 13-15 thousand kms is huge and it feels like riding on a completely new frame.
seaneT1 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:11 pm
You are calling this thing an aston martin????? Just because it is made by hand in France and has a ridiculously high price tag doesn't mean ANYTHING!!!! I know, I have a Bottecchia, handmade in Italy and weighs at around 1050 gr WITH the seatpost in size M...and it is also aero, not a lightweight frame, the lightweight comes just bellow the 700 gr for the frame...and I would never dare to say that Bottecchia is like owning a Ferrari because it isn't, and the same applies to Time!!!! aston martin my ass....
Wow, that's an agressive reply, but since you are from Greece I can sort of understand...

You're probably new to cycling so I recommend reading about the Time brand, it's history, influence on the sport and products they have made over the years. Time bikes are exceptional quality, in terms of final finish much better than the glorified Colnago C series which costs about the same. They are made to last.

Bottecchia? Even mentioning it in one sentence with an Italian legend from Maranello is a disgrace to even the worst of Enzo's creation.

As for the Aktiv fork I have not tried it myself yet, but supposedly it's a massive difference and it works briallantly.

The terrible graphics of Scylon were mentioned and I entirely agree. The last few seasons they were terrible. I just remember the gloss carbon finish RXR and how beautiful it was and could not understand what they have done lately. But with the Alpe d'Huez it seems like they are back to better designs.

muti
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by muti

This thread I think is getting out of control...After frames, we started judging people by nation. Since I am also from Greece,I found your comment deeply offensive. On the other hand ,my co-patriot 's comment is not even an opinion .I think we have to leave it here.

wingguy
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by wingguy

Calnago wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:18 pm
They're not saving weight by using it since the preload system is not absent but rather in their proprietary "Quikset" headset, which I affectionately refer to as "Slowset". It's heavy with a metal threaded collar bonded to the fork. But it looks like they've abandoned that for this new model, at least I can't see evidence of it from the picture.
No, it definitely still has a Quikset headset.
I'm staring at a new Scylon in front of me right now which I'm about to build for someone, with the Aktiv fork, just waiting on a couple things. As much as I stare at it, the graphics are just not doing it for me at all.
Even our national distributor for Time agrees that the graphics are horribly outdated. But they say that Rossignol will be a lot more involved in that side of it from now on so hopefully it will improve a lot across the range.
Any geometry charts on this new frame yet?
https://www.time-sport.com/int-en/time- ... -2018.html
As to the lack of an offset seatpost, I understand that they've factored that into the geometry, with a slacker seattube than normal for any given size...
Kinda depends on size. It's 73degrees across the board from S to XL, which is pretty slack on the small but not very slack at all on the XL. Then 73.7 and 74.7 on the XS and XXS.

seaneT1
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by seaneT1

The anger derives mostly from frustration...I really like what Time is doing with the whole manufacturing but the product design is rubbish! I really wanted to like it, in the first sneak peak that kgt posted, I thought that it would finally be a really nice, modern bike and got my hopes up, only for them to come crushing down once good quallity pictures popped up..and then there is all the hype from the press, writting stuff like "ultra-lightweight" and things like that, which are not based on reality (the reality being that it is light but nothing special) only written because they are sponsored, and that reminded me once again that cycling journalism isn't to be trusted at all, and that makes me sad aswell (at least this forum exists and we get to learn stuff and get *mostly* unbiased opinions when we need them :) ). And lastly, what made me lose my mind was that there are people comparing that thing to an aston martin...ok you may love it because of many reasons, but please, get REAL!!! And about Bottecchia, I don't really care all that much about them anymore, I will hop on to a new high-end aero with plenty of integration and light enough bike with the first chance I get, but if we are to compare Time and Bottecchia, they both have a big histroy but the main difference is that Bottecchia is trying to keep up with cycling... let's not forget for example upon which bike was this years tour de l'avenir won....and as I said before, I would never dare to call them as the equivalent of a Ferrari, but they are not just alfa romeo's either... they are really good, Italian hand made racing bikes and that's all....and what was that about me being from Greece and replying angrily on this thread? can't understand the correlation between those two... :noidea:

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

wingguy wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:08 pm
Calnago wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:18 pm
They're not saving weight by using it since the preload system is not absent but rather in their proprietary "Quikset" headset, which I affectionately refer to as "Slowset". It's heavy with a metal threaded collar bonded to the fork. But it looks like they've abandoned that for this new model, at least I can't see evidence of it from the picture.
No, it definitely still has a Quikset headset.
I'm staring at a new Scylon in front of me right now which I'm about to build for someone, with the Aktiv fork, just waiting on a couple things. As much as I stare at it, the graphics are just not doing it for me at all.
Even our national distributor for Time agrees that the graphics are horribly outdated. But they say that Rossignol will be a lot more involved in that side of it from now on so hopefully it will improve a lot across the range.
Any geometry charts on this new frame yet?
https://www.time-sport.com/int-en/time- ... -2018.html
As to the lack of an offset seatpost, I understand that they've factored that into the geometry, with a slacker seattube than normal for any given size...
Kinda depends on size. It's 73degrees across the board from S to XL, which is pretty slack on the small but not very slack at all on the XL. Then 73.7 and 74.7 on the XS and XXS.
Thanks... yes, I guess the geo chart is on the website now... suppose I could have checked... but ouch... still has the 404mm chainstays from XXS all the way throught to XL. Haven't they got the minimum chainstay length memo from Shimano and Campagnolo? Hmmm. Or maybe it was just too costly to retool the change? Again... hmmmm.
And yes, they say it does have an "integrated" Quickset headset. Must be buried under that little cover. I wonder if you can still service it with the two little "bars" that fit in, which looks like it would be hard to do unless they are really angled upwards. Or in the alternative, maybe you now have to use their heavy duty proprietary headset tool. Would like to see "under the cover" please. Enough walking around and kicking the tires.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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