SPEEDVAGEN - SUPERLIGHT ROAD Frame

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
spud
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

by spud

I think you are 100% right.

I admit to be a curmudgeon, and that there are different strokes for different folks. Thankfully, people can scratch whatever cycling itch they have. But the notion that Sacha is uniquely qualified to measure you, analyze your needs, and turn out a product any better than any other builder out there is a load of horse cr_p. The whole narrative annoys me, but it's not any of my business.

by Weenie


User avatar
nickf
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

SV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.

KarlC
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:08 am
Location: San Diego Ca USA

by KarlC

nickf wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pm
SV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
I understand this mindset and used to think this must be true. It took riding one daily to change my view.

User avatar
TonyM
Posts: 2484
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

KarlC wrote:
nickf wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pm
SV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
I understand this mindset and used to think this must be true. It took riding one daily to change my view.
To which other bikes do you compared it to?

User avatar
euan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:20 am

by euan

nickf wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pm
SV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
Is your $500 raw materials also including a fork? And its miraculous that all these tubes come delivered and self assemble themselves into a bike, paint themselves, an then finally ship themselves to your doorstep.
"Step forward the climber and all those who worship at the altar of lightness" - R. Millar

User avatar
nickf
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

euan wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:31 pm
nickf wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pm
SV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
Is your $500 raw materials also including a fork? And its miraculous that all these tubes come delivered and self assemble themselves into a bike, paint themselves, an then finally ship themselves to your doorstep.
Hey people have to make living, I understand that. For a main triangle, $500 is about it. Ok you got me on the fork and paint. They also have insurance, overhead, tooling cost, labor....I know. Hell i threw down and got a English, I'm all about custom. But over hyping something with pages and pages of ramble, come on. Stop trying to convince me to justify the cost, just give me the details and I'll decide. Plenty of skilled builders out there. They might not have the snazzy paint, but I'm damn sure they can build something just as good as anything else out there.

User avatar
TonyM
Posts: 2484
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

They are definitively asking for a lot of $$ for their frames and bikes...

But if you like it and can afford it buy it and just enjoy it. As simple as that.
There is no need to feel obliged or to try to justify the price you paid...

User avatar
alexneumuller
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 10:45 am
Location: Munich, Germany

by alexneumuller

My Speedvagen.....rides like a dream, and I have never tried to justify the cost as that is a pointless exercise. If you love riding your bike than the bike is justified, no matter the cost.

Weight as this is 7.2kg. Could save some weight with THM crank and a lighter stem! Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-------------------------------
Parlee Z-Zero Disc
Stinner Frameworks Ti
Speedvagen 2017
Colnago C64
Independent Fabrication Crown Jewel TI
Felt IAFRD
Cannondale Super Evo Six 2017
Opencycle O-1.0
Open New UP 2017
Canyon Inflite 9.0 2015

User avatar
dj97223
Posts: 665
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

[img]/img]
Attachments
9780375812156_p0_v2_s550x406.jpg
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

Carcinogent
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:37 pm
Location: France

by Carcinogent

nickf wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:16 am
euan wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:31 pm
nickf wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pm
SV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
Is your $500 raw materials also including a fork? And its miraculous that all these tubes come delivered and self assemble themselves into a bike, paint themselves, an then finally ship themselves to your doorstep.
Hey people have to make living, I understand that. For a main triangle, $500 is about it. Ok you got me on the fork and paint. They also have insurance, overhead, tooling cost, labor....I know. Hell i threw down and got a English, I'm all about custom. But over hyping something with pages and pages of ramble, come on. Stop trying to convince me to justify the cost, just give me the details and I'll decide. Plenty of skilled builders out there. They might not have the snazzy paint, but I'm damn sure they can build something just as good as anything else out there.
As eloquently put by lugged steel framebuilder Richard Sachs.

"Folks don’t come to you to get your version of what is sold at the mall. That wasn’t even the case when steel was ubiquitous. Clients call and arrive at your doorstep because you have abilities and experiences that enable you to translate their information and construct a frame of higher quality and fine design, material is NOT part of the equation."

Paragon and all the tubing manufacturers sell to everybody, so it a a free for al market - if you can make it better you are not limited by anything to do it. It's the experience that counts. :D

morrisond
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

dbnm wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:29 am
The bikes are sexy and well made. Even the readymade is a work of art.
As a former Speedvagen owner - I would have to disagree with this statement. For what they are charging for one of their top end optioned up frames the finish quality that is coming out of there shop is not what it should be.

I had one of the First Disc Brake bikes with an Overt Scheme - Carbon seat tube - Integrated bar, etc...

It looked good from far but it was far from good. The welds were industrial and the paint was pretty crap. Lines didn't line up and if you breathed on it wrong the paint came off.

By the time I ticked all the options that was probably a $7,000-8,000 USD frame with paint and options.

I loved the shape of it and the idea of it but in reality the finished product was sub-par.

For that price on a steel frame the welds should be on par with Mosaic or Baum and the paint should be as good as those too as well.

I actually considered having Velocolour repaint it (they have done a few bikes for me and the quality is beyond measure), however in the end I sold it as it kind of rode like crap as we used an ENVE CX fork as the GRD or Road Fork's were not available yet.

It was fine with 35mm+ tires but anything smaller and it was too harsh. But that is not Speedvagen's fault.

In the end even though my experience wasn't great - I would consider getting another one. They are great to work with.

But it wouldn't be a fully optioned one with Superlight tubes - it would be the essence of SV - one of there OG-1 ready made models which are quite good value.

spartan
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

wait. you bought a frame with all these issues and you are open to buying another one wtf :x
is the SV label so intoxicating? have you heard of stelbel from italy

http://stelbel.it/en/
Current Rides:

2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

morrisond
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

spartan wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:17 pm
wait. you bought a frame with all these issues and you are open to buying another one wtf :x
is the SV label so intoxicating? have you heard of stelbel from italy

http://stelbel.it/en/
Yes I have heard of Stelbel - IMO probably the best Value for money out there.

The only SV I would consider would be there basic OG-1 with the Ghost scheme. It shouldn't have any issues (An ENVE road fork rides well) and at about $5,000 with wheels and Grouppo not a bad value.

Looking at the current pricing by the time you option up a SV Superlight with Disc brakes you are talking an $8-9,000 Frame - not worth it - But the OG-1 you are probably paying only $3,500 for the frame.

SV are good looking bikes with all the stainless details - the dropouts are fantastic. The new Thruaxle dropouts are so-so. Not worthy of SV.

cassard
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:31 am

by cassard

nickf wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pm
SV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
SV does exactly the same, excepter thinner headtube, weavy seat-stays and standard paintjob, but charge way over everybody especially when you take disc options (500$ for disc option, what the hell). oh yea, intergrated seatpost, woohoo. TIG welding is TIG welding, you just need someone that does it well.

Personnally, I prefer paintjobs like Stinner, a lot of very cool design, good color choice finish. I've looked at pretty much all the builders for about 6 month before deciding witch one I wanted. If I went to SV it would've cost me twice as much as what I paid for my frameset, to get the same thing.

The only one I would've choose instead of Stinner was English, but 2 years waiting list was to much for me.

by Weenie


morrisond
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

Stinner's are another great Value out there right now - Great Paint jobs.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post