SPEEDVAGEN - SUPERLIGHT ROAD Frame
Moderator: robbosmans
I think you are 100% right.
I admit to be a curmudgeon, and that there are different strokes for different folks. Thankfully, people can scratch whatever cycling itch they have. But the notion that Sacha is uniquely qualified to measure you, analyze your needs, and turn out a product any better than any other builder out there is a load of horse cr_p. The whole narrative annoys me, but it's not any of my business.
I admit to be a curmudgeon, and that there are different strokes for different folks. Thankfully, people can scratch whatever cycling itch they have. But the notion that Sacha is uniquely qualified to measure you, analyze your needs, and turn out a product any better than any other builder out there is a load of horse cr_p. The whole narrative annoys me, but it's not any of my business.
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SV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
I understand this mindset and used to think this must be true. It took riding one daily to change my view.nickf wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pmSV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
C64 My Sixty 4 SR EPS 12
To which other bikes do you compared it to?KarlC wrote:I understand this mindset and used to think this must be true. It took riding one daily to change my view.nickf wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pmSV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
Is your $500 raw materials also including a fork? And its miraculous that all these tubes come delivered and self assemble themselves into a bike, paint themselves, an then finally ship themselves to your doorstep.nickf wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pmSV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
Hey people have to make living, I understand that. For a main triangle, $500 is about it. Ok you got me on the fork and paint. They also have insurance, overhead, tooling cost, labor....I know. Hell i threw down and got a English, I'm all about custom. But over hyping something with pages and pages of ramble, come on. Stop trying to convince me to justify the cost, just give me the details and I'll decide. Plenty of skilled builders out there. They might not have the snazzy paint, but I'm damn sure they can build something just as good as anything else out there.euan wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:31 pmIs your $500 raw materials also including a fork? And its miraculous that all these tubes come delivered and self assemble themselves into a bike, paint themselves, an then finally ship themselves to your doorstep.nickf wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pmSV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
- alexneumuller
- Posts: 398
- Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 10:45 am
- Location: Munich, Germany
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My Speedvagen.....rides like a dream, and I have never tried to justify the cost as that is a pointless exercise. If you love riding your bike than the bike is justified, no matter the cost.
Weight as this is 7.2kg. Could save some weight with THM crank and a lighter stem!
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Weight as this is 7.2kg. Could save some weight with THM crank and a lighter stem!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:37 pm
- Location: France
As eloquently put by lugged steel framebuilder Richard Sachs.nickf wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:16 amHey people have to make living, I understand that. For a main triangle, $500 is about it. Ok you got me on the fork and paint. They also have insurance, overhead, tooling cost, labor....I know. Hell i threw down and got a English, I'm all about custom. But over hyping something with pages and pages of ramble, come on. Stop trying to convince me to justify the cost, just give me the details and I'll decide. Plenty of skilled builders out there. They might not have the snazzy paint, but I'm damn sure they can build something just as good as anything else out there.euan wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:31 pmIs your $500 raw materials also including a fork? And its miraculous that all these tubes come delivered and self assemble themselves into a bike, paint themselves, an then finally ship themselves to your doorstep.nickf wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pmSV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
"Folks don’t come to you to get your version of what is sold at the mall. That wasn’t even the case when steel was ubiquitous. Clients call and arrive at your doorstep because you have abilities and experiences that enable you to translate their information and construct a frame of higher quality and fine design, material is NOT part of the equation."
Paragon and all the tubing manufacturers sell to everybody, so it a a free for al market - if you can make it better you are not limited by anything to do it. It's the experience that counts.
As a former Speedvagen owner - I would have to disagree with this statement. For what they are charging for one of their top end optioned up frames the finish quality that is coming out of there shop is not what it should be.
I had one of the First Disc Brake bikes with an Overt Scheme - Carbon seat tube - Integrated bar, etc...
It looked good from far but it was far from good. The welds were industrial and the paint was pretty crap. Lines didn't line up and if you breathed on it wrong the paint came off.
By the time I ticked all the options that was probably a $7,000-8,000 USD frame with paint and options.
I loved the shape of it and the idea of it but in reality the finished product was sub-par.
For that price on a steel frame the welds should be on par with Mosaic or Baum and the paint should be as good as those too as well.
I actually considered having Velocolour repaint it (they have done a few bikes for me and the quality is beyond measure), however in the end I sold it as it kind of rode like crap as we used an ENVE CX fork as the GRD or Road Fork's were not available yet.
It was fine with 35mm+ tires but anything smaller and it was too harsh. But that is not Speedvagen's fault.
In the end even though my experience wasn't great - I would consider getting another one. They are great to work with.
But it wouldn't be a fully optioned one with Superlight tubes - it would be the essence of SV - one of there OG-1 ready made models which are quite good value.
wait. you bought a frame with all these issues and you are open to buying another one wtf
is the SV label so intoxicating? have you heard of stelbel from italy
http://stelbel.it/en/
is the SV label so intoxicating? have you heard of stelbel from italy
http://stelbel.it/en/
Current Rides:
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
Yes I have heard of Stelbel - IMO probably the best Value for money out there.spartan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:17 pmwait. you bought a frame with all these issues and you are open to buying another one wtf
is the SV label so intoxicating? have you heard of stelbel from italy
http://stelbel.it/en/
The only SV I would consider would be there basic OG-1 with the Ghost scheme. It shouldn't have any issues (An ENVE road fork rides well) and at about $5,000 with wheels and Grouppo not a bad value.
Looking at the current pricing by the time you option up a SV Superlight with Disc brakes you are talking an $8-9,000 Frame - not worth it - But the OG-1 you are probably paying only $3,500 for the frame.
SV are good looking bikes with all the stainless details - the dropouts are fantastic. The new Thruaxle dropouts are so-so. Not worthy of SV.
SV does exactly the same, excepter thinner headtube, weavy seat-stays and standard paintjob, but charge way over everybody especially when you take disc options (500$ for disc option, what the hell). oh yea, intergrated seatpost, woohoo. TIG welding is TIG welding, you just need someone that does it well.nickf wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:53 pmSV has great details and are pretty. But in the end many of these builders are just welding together some off the shelf tubes with paragon dropouts. They all essentially look the same. Paragon dropouts, 44mm headtube, with X brand tubes. $500 bucks worth of raw material and charging $5k for paint and marketing. Just building a bike, not rocket science. There is no magic.
Personnally, I prefer paintjobs like Stinner, a lot of very cool design, good color choice finish. I've looked at pretty much all the builders for about 6 month before deciding witch one I wanted. If I went to SV it would've cost me twice as much as what I paid for my frameset, to get the same thing.
The only one I would've choose instead of Stinner was English, but 2 years waiting list was to much for me.
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Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com