Misaligned Carbon Frame?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
billspreston
Posts: 370
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:40 pm
Location: CA

by billspreston

I hold this manufacturer in high regard with respect to quality so I feel Option 1 is likely. I realize that manufacturing is not 100% fault free so if a replacement is provided I will be happy.

by Weenie


wingguy
Posts: 4198
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

liam7020 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:12 pm
Could it be assymetric chainstays eg Pinarello F8
Outside of a really half-arsed knockoff design or the type of dropped drive side stay you don't see on pure road bikes, assymetrical chainstays shouldn't change the tyre clearance from one side to the other.

glepore
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Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

Not unheard of. A respected manufacturer had this issue with some frames a few years back, and warrantied quite a few.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Cannondale SS Evo Di2 7970 (5.79); Willier Cento Uno Air Di2 9070 (7.0); C40 Mk2 DA 7800 ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Because the wheel is so big, even the very slightest anomaly at the dropouts will cause the wheel to not be perfectly centered. This does not mean the frame is defective. Every frame that is made is never 100% perfect at the dropouts. So before the frame is shipped it’s checked for proper wheel alignment at the dropouts. Adjustments are made to bring the wheel back in alignment. This is done by either removing or adding more materials to the NDS dropout. Any frame builder can do this in less than two minutes. It’s not rocket science. If you are mechanically inclined and have a dremel, you can correct the problem to perfection in less than ten minutes.

Fast forward to the 6:30 mark in this video to see how this adjustment is done on every bike that is made.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xJDea5mSUJY


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billspreston
Posts: 370
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:40 pm
Location: CA

by billspreston

I think that is best left up to the manufacturer at this point. I believe in this case material would need to be added to the NDS dropout to bring things into alignment and I'm not sure how that would be done on a carbon dropout. I am not mechanically inclined when it comes to composites. Perhaps if I just had to file down a titanium dropout like the video I might give it a shot, but this is a $$$$ frameset so expectations for QC are higher than normal. IMO a frame at this level (or even 1/3 of this level) should not require modifications from the end user to align a tire width that is spec'd to fit (calipers to 28.0mm).

pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

If you have never done this yourself then yes, leave it to the manufacturer to fix it. It's not just about adding or removing materials. It's about adding or removing materials at the right places in the dropout. A very very slight change in material will cause a big change at the rim because the wheel is so big. So it takes an experienced operator to get it to align perfectly. Good luck and please report back the end result.

Valbrona
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Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

by Valbrona

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:53 am
Because the wheel is so big, even the very slightest anomaly at the dropouts will cause the wheel to not be perfectly centered. This does not mean the frame is defective.
If a wheel is 2/3mm off centre, why would the frame not be defective?

Never read so much shit written in a thread as this one.

Incidentally, for anyone trying to correct something like this themselves you can use a DT Swiss RWS twist-style skewer which gives much higher clamping force, thus allowing for a little re-alignment of the wheel. But use a different 'nut' on the end rather than the standard alloy one, like an old-style all-steel one.

pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Valbrona wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:14 am
If a wheel is 2/3mm off centre, why would the frame not be defective?
A non-centered wheel doesn't mean the frame is out of alignment. The dropouts just need to be adjusted so the wheel can track straight. A drop out alignment and frame alignment are two different things. If you watch the linked video above, the frame is aligned first then the dropouts are adjusted as the last step. Carbon frames are produced with very accurate alignments to begin with. This is because each molded pieces are bonded together with good control of alignment. Metal frames can distort after welding and they are more prone to mis-alignments. But metal frames can be re-aligned quite easily. Carbon frames cannot.

ooo
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

if chainstay length is the same on the left and right (distance from bb to dropout), than probably it is just dropout misalignment problem
'

wingguy
Posts: 4198
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:53 am
If you are mechanically inclined and have a dremel, you can correct the problem to perfection in less than ten minutes.
That’s crazy bad advice. Not only are you probably going to be left with a loose dropout regardless, you’re completely screwed if it doesn’t go right.

Take a new frame back to the shop with a misaligned dropout and the manufacturer will warranty it. Take a frame back to the shop with an obviously dremelled dropout and the manufacturer will tell you to get f**ked....

pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

wingguy wrote:
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:53 am
If you are mechanically inclined and have a dremel, you can correct the problem to perfection in less than ten minutes.
That’s crazy bad advice. Not only are you probably going to be left with a loose dropout regardless, you’re completely screwed if it doesn’t go right.

Take a new frame back to the shop with a misaligned dropout and the manufacturer will warranty it. Take a frame back to the shop with an obviously dremelled dropout and the manufacturer will tell you to get f**ked....
Just because you don’t want to take this approach doesn’t mean my advice is bad. The decision to proceed should be left to the individual. My point is that this is not rocket science if you are mechanically inclined. And the materials removed is very little. You can’t really screw it up if you take your time and check your work.


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wingguy
Posts: 4198
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:29 pm
Just because you don’t want to take this approach doesn’t mean my advice is bad. The decision to proceed should be left to the individual.
It is definitely bad advice to tell someone with a genuine warranty issue to take action which would void that warranty and leave them up shit creek if it doesn't work or they do it wrong.
My point is that this is not rocket science if you are mechanically inclined. And the materials removed is very little. You can’t really screw it up if you take your time and check your work.
How many times have you personally done this?
Last edited by wingguy on Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zakalwe
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm

by Zakalwe

Shockingly bad sdvice

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ouch!! It's a new frame... get it warrantied if they deem it a warranty issue and I can't see why they wouldn't. Also, you don't try to "align" carbon stays or dropouts. You could break the frame. Ti or steel is malleable and sure, you can twist and bend the dropouts to align them and there are proper tools for this (I have them, but never use them these days, since most stuff is carbon). And if you start resorting to filing and dremelling to make things square and even, you'd better have proper jigs and measuring devices to make sure it's done right. Plus, do you really know if the stays are correctly aligned in the first place, or if you've just corrected one wrong with another. The only filing I do on dropouts these days is just to possibly remove excess thick paint. Oh, and the lawyer tabs (shhhhhh).
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pdlpsher1
Posts: 1748
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Ok. Bad advice it is. I'm just trying to help the Op and let him know that his frame is most likely OK but the dropouts needed some adjustments...

by Weenie


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