Misaligned Carbon Frame?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
billspreston
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:40 pm
Location: CA

by billspreston

Hey all, I'm building up a very nice frameset here and have discovered a concerning issue. If you look at the photos below you can see the rear wheel is quite off center between the dropouts. I've included photos of two different wheels to illustrate that it is not wheel dish causing the misalignment.

  • I've put 3 different wheels in the frame with the same off center result.
  • I've reversed said wheels (cassette towards NDS) to verify wheel dish with the same off center result.
  • Wheel is also off center at the seat stays.
  • Removed and swapped derailleur hangers to make sure it's not the hanger.
  • I've checked for paint/clearcoat that might be interfering with the alignment and found no issues.

Based on this, I've concluded that the frame is misaligned and have stopped the build. Am I correct in this conclusion? If so, my understanding is that carbon does not bend or warp so the frame came this way from the factory and cannot be corrected. Therefore, I should be pushing for a replacement, yes? Thanks for any help and opinions as always!

Image

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Kumppa
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:05 am

by Kumppa

I had some problem with brand now wheel
which was offcentered couple 2mm. Test with other wheel.

by Weenie


Attermann
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:04 pm
Location: Denmark

by Attermann

Kumppa wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:03 pm
I had some problem with brand now wheel
which was offcentered couple 2mm. Test with other wheel.
Read the text again

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3133
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Sounds like you have a thorough analysis. Reversing the wheel tells the story. Send the supplier a photo with the wheel in properly and another photo with the same wheel reversed and demand a refund/replacement.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Kumppa
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:05 am

by Kumppa

Attermann wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:14 pm

Read the text again
My bad.

Zakalwe
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm

by Zakalwe

Is there clearcoat overspray in the dropout, a tiny amount on one side would push the wheel out like that.

Never mind, just read properly now I’m home.

wedgie
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:41 pm

by wedgie

Is the wheel aligned accurately between the seat stays? I had a similar issue with a carbon frame a few years ago. It was caused by a slightly misaligned derailleur hanger. A new hanger solved the problem.

wedgie
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:41 pm

by wedgie

Just read your post again. Obviously not a hanger problem.

stormur
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

With frames being "asymmetric" it's common look, however your doesn't like it is "asy"... You checked all properly, so conslusion also seems to be correct IMO.
ISO is very certain about tire clearance ( for given by manufacturer size ) : so as an argument you can use it doesn't fit to the "norm" - not enough clearance on 1 side. From experience... 2mm doesn't mean "difference" for some brands. It's still "fine" ... .
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

liam7020
Posts: 817
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 am

by liam7020

What frame is it? Could it be assymetric chainstays eg Pinarello F8
Belgian Flag S-Works Tarmac viewtopic.php?f=10&t=144553

"Sometimes you don't need a plan. You just need big balls." Tom Boonen

billspreston
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:40 pm
Location: CA

by billspreston

AFAIK the frame has symmetrical chainstays. I'd prefer not to name the frame before I give the manufacturer an opportunity to fix it. I just want to be thorough and informed on the issue before speaking with them and make sure I'm not missing anything silly. It doesn't sound like that's the case, so now I will contact the manufacturer and see what they say. As it stands, I'm hopeful for a positive outcome and will keep the thread updated.

UpFromOne
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:23 am
Location: Olympic Nat'l Park, WA

by UpFromOne

Love a good bike mystery, and this sure is one!

You say you installed each wheel in both the proper and reverse positions, and that with both positions, the tire locates the exact same place, nearer to the DS chainstay as your pics show.

If that is true (which would prove equidistant dish of the wheel), then the next issue is whether the DS dropout is further from the frame's centerline than the NDS dropout. This is not necessarily the case, as the BB shell might be designed asymmetric. Which would explain why the chainstays are different distances from the frame centerline, and why the tire does not align to the very center of the BB shell. So might that be possible for this frame?
(Not claiming to have the answer, just asking a question.)

Also, can you install both wheels, and from behind the bike look along the rear tire, to see if it lines up with the front tire when the fork is straight ahead? Do that on both sides of the tire. That's another thing to check, assuming front & rear tires are the same.

gospastic
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:58 am
Location: Chicago

by gospastic

Is it also off center at the brake bridge?

billspreston
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:40 pm
Location: CA

by billspreston

^ Yes it is also off center at the brake bridge.

Yesterday I spoke with the manufacturer who agreed the photos didn't look right. So the frame is now being sent to them for diagnosis and I will post here with a resolution.

Valbrona
Posts: 1488
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

by Valbrona

Option 1/ Manufacturer agrees that misalignment is not within agreed limits and supplies a replacement frame.

Option 2/ Manufacturer says 'you have to live with it because that is the best standard we can make our frames to'.

All it takes is slightly misaligned dropouts to get this effect.

by Weenie


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