Alternative to CeramicSpeed?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Jenmoss
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:15 am

by Jenmoss

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:59 pm
kode54 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:30 pm
have you tried these oversized pulleys?
No i have not. I'm not sure i would either.
Not sure i believe i would notice any benefit or change.
Only thing i have tried is ceramic bearings for BB.

Oh, last two season i've only used my gravel bike to.
BB is the only place where I have noticed a difference, the bearings are so small on a jockey wheel and then you have the cassette movement and chain friction and cranks .
Fibre lyte jockey wheels don't use bearings just a very clever design that means you jockey wheels have no bearings to slip off. That for me ( i run a single 53 chainring ) is a great idea

by Weenie


kode54
Posts: 1559
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:59 pm
kode54 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:30 pm
have you tried these oversized pulleys?
No i have not. I'm not sure i would either.
Not sure i believe i would notice any benefit or change.
Only thing i have tried is ceramic bearings for BB.

Oh, last two season i've only used my gravel bike to.
J&L on eBay is selling a replacement 12/14 oversized pulleys for the 9100/9150 RD. since the cage is longer than the 9070...maybe i'll try those just to see how they perform. i'll replace when the OEM ones get worn.

i'm surprised you're only riding the gravel nowadays. i have a friend that is only riding gravel on rides. he says its more comfy than regular road bike. plus, he said he likes the disc brakes.
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 Ene carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9150 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 7.8 carbon hubs
- Moots Vamoots Disc RSL Titanium + DA9170 + Enve 4.5AR CK CL hubs
- Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 + DA9170 + Enve SES 5.6 DT Swiss 240 CL hubs

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2651
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I'm not riding any other routes than my gravel bike routes. So the road bikes been parked for this reason.
I rode my road bike once in two seasons. But it felt a bit boring riding tarmac. Almost like a never ending straight line.
I think it's because it's much less active riding.
For tarmac, the vial evo is a much more snappy bike though.
It feels very quick on steering and much more prone to acceleration.
So if i went on road routes again, i would use the vial evo.

But yes, a gravel bike offers much more comfy ride feel.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

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TonyM
Posts: 2930
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:16 pm
I'm not riding any other routes than my gravel bike routes. So the road bikes been parked for this reason.
I rode my road bike once in two seasons. But it felt a bit boring riding tarmac. Almost like a never ending straight line.
I think it's because it's much less active riding.
For tarmac, the vial evo is a much more snappy bike though.
It feels very quick on steering and much more prone to acceleration.
So if i went on road routes again, i would use the vial evo.

But yes, a gravel bike offers much more comfy ride feel.
Wrong thread...... :noidea:

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thencameyou
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:27 am
Location: Nu Zild

by thencameyou

kode54 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:23 pm

J&L on eBay is selling a replacement 12/14 oversized pulleys for the 9100/9150 RD. since the cage is longer than the 9070...maybe i'll try those just to see how they perform. i'll replace when the OEM ones get worn.
Has anyone tried these with a medium cage 6870 Di2 Ultegra rear derailleur?

wfcarrot
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:46 pm

by wfcarrot

Token released their new pulley wheel system. They probably have a similar weight(around 70g) but Token is cheaper.

MAJ
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:33 pm

by MAJ

TonyM wrote:Here some results from Friction facts published by CeramicSpeed on their derailleur pulleys and others brands (with names and values):

http://www.ceramicspeed.com/media/30628 ... -Small.pdf
https://www.fabreguesbicicletas.es/bici ... bXEALw_wcB

Best buy?
Very close to ceramicspeed at bargain price!

ChiZ01
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:20 pm

by ChiZ01

bilwit wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:01 pm
Jenmoss wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:54 pm
Does anyone actually think about the cost of some of these jockey wheels . It’s a complete joke .
You are paying much money for something that would cost not much at all, and what about the real world riding effect these are going to give you . If your some high level TT rider maybe you may get some benefit on a perfect course but imo this is a typical example of cyclists getting ripped off and being stupid enough to think these expensive jockey wheels are going to make them better riders and go quicker..
That doesn't make sense. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. In my case my stock jockey wheels took a beating from this winter so I just dropped the equivalent of a couple burritos and a beer for some extra bike bling. Sue me.

:noidea:

By that logic, every cycling enthusiast who ever spends money on the sport is "being ripped off" for anything they purchase for any and all reasons that item strikes their fancy because they don't need it and it won't make them push 400 watts up alpine mountains anyway.

not really, some upgrades are worth it and you will feel it, like going from 2000g wheelset to 1500g wheelset, expensive pulley wheels are not

sfo423
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:12 pm
Location: San Francisco

by sfo423

J&L has some ceramic bottom brackets: pretty cheap. I just installed a GXP crank with Italian thread BB. After torquing it it does not spin anywhere near as freely as my dura ace crank with Wheels Engineering press fit B.B.

The BB would be better roi than jockey wheels.

MAJ
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:33 pm

by MAJ

sfo423 wrote:J&L has some ceramic bottom brackets: pretty cheap. I just installed a GXP crank with Italian thread BB. After torquing it it does not spin anywhere near as freely as my dura ace crank with Wheels Engineering press fit B.B.

The BB would be better roi than jockey wheels.
I have a pair of J&L jockey wheels ultralight in delrim material and bigger than originals that I am going to install on my new rear derailleur ultegra di2.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2775941750

Originally I had bought them for my MTB put I don't consider they have a good sealing for the mud and dirty of the mtb.


For bottom bracket of my road bike I have ordered yesterday this one:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3778884291

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3039
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Bottom bracket bearings spin at 90rpm average. Pulley wheels spin almost 5x that rpm. The very best ceramic bottom bracket bearings save you a fraction of a fraction of a watt over the very best steel bearings.

If you were to change ALL the bearings used to propel you forward from steel to ceramic, you would save ~5w. This includes the BB, hubs, freehub, pulley wheels, pedal spindles and I’ll also include the chain. The lion’s share of the savings is in the chain and pulley wheels.

Attermann
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:04 pm
Location: Denmark

by Attermann

thencameyou wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:21 am
kode54 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:23 pm

J&L on eBay is selling a replacement 12/14 oversized pulleys for the 9100/9150 RD. since the cage is longer than the 9070...maybe i'll try those just to see how they perform. i'll replace when the OEM ones get worn.
Has anyone tried these with a medium cage 6870 Di2 Ultegra rear derailleur?
I have tried them, they developed play really fast, I have now mounted some 12/15 KCNC, they work really well, but I really can’t feel a difference

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3039
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Attermann wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:40 am
thencameyou wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:21 am
kode54 wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:23 pm

J&L on eBay is selling a replacement 12/14 oversized pulleys for the 9100/9150 RD. since the cage is longer than the 9070...maybe i'll try those just to see how they perform. i'll replace when the OEM ones get worn.
Has anyone tried these with a medium cage 6870 Di2 Ultegra rear derailleur?
I have tried them, they developed play really fast, I have now mounted some 12/15 KCNC, they work really well, but I really can’t feel a difference
The ~5W difference I mentioned is at a target of 250w and involves changing all the bearings out from good steel to good ceramics. Merely swapping the pulley wheels gives you somewhere between 1-2 watts at the 250w target. I doubt anyone can really feel 5w without additional references, let alone 1-2w

mattr
Posts: 4475
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:33 pm
The ~5W difference I mentioned is at a target of 250w and involves changing all the bearings out from good steel to good ceramics. Merely swapping the pulley wheels gives you somewhere between 1-2 watts at the 250w target. I doubt anyone can really feel 5w without additional references, let alone 1-2w
From memory the threshold of human perception to changes of this type is about 10%, with some able to feel slightly less, so maybe 5% in some rare cases.

Most of the change you can "detect" will be in your head and wallet.

g32ecs
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

...or a clean chain/cogs 😉

If you bought these oversized jockeys you MUST have a clean drivetrain. Otherwise it negates this $500 investment.

Same with loose clothing on aero bikes, etc etc etc

by Weenie


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