Need advice on path forward

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
alexaqui
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:42 pm

by alexaqui

Thanks for the advice. All of my derailleurs are installed so I'll have to break a chain or two to get to it. Not a big deal though... I'll give that a shot. I will also check the bottom bracket area as recommended and consider running a longer loop for the final link. The last rebuild from the shop had the cables pretty long (I *despise* how it looks lol) just to avoid all of this.

I've got a few things to work on.

When I built my other two bikes, I actually cut, cleaned, and prepped the cables as described above. It's worth it. My TT bike and my crash-repaired C50 are all running great on Chorus 11 and I built both of them.

by Weenie


AJS914
Posts: 2251
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

You can take the rear derailleur off without breaking the chain by removing the pulleys. It's a great opportunity to clean them anyway.

wilwil
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

My C60 didn't work well with SR until i changed the mech hanger to Wheels Manufacturing. The Colnago hanger is too soft. This is with post 2015 SR. On my Pegoretti running Record 2010 there is no separate mech hanger and the Dario drop out is very robust, the shifting on this bike has always beed perfect, front and back. On my Cervelo I had to use a Wheels or Pilo hanger to get good shifting on Record 2010. If you are still using a Colnago mech hanger try swapping it for a Wheels.

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

@wilwil.... could it be that your original Colnago hanger had possibly seen just too much bending back and forth in attempt to make things right? Several bends will soften up even the best hangers, they're not meant to be bent over and over again. On the C60's, I'm pretty sure the hangers are CNC'd aluminum the same as the Wheels Mfg ones. At least I can't tell a difference in their quality, and I've examined them pretty closely. I was thinking of doing an experiment with a Wheels Manufacturing Hanger held in a vice to see just how much bending it would take before breaking, mostly because I was dealing with Pinarello that needed a whole of bending to set right, and I'm afraid the dropouts might break with it during the process.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

octave
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm

by octave

Calnago wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:57 pm

- Might the cables have gotten twisted around each other in the downtube? This would definitely mess things up.
calnago, reading the above sent me on a mission to fix my own shifting. i recently built up a lapierre xelius sl, and was so happy because i had never had an easier internal cable routing experience. funny thing is, as i was putting all my tools away afterwards, i said to myself, "now wait a minute.... i think i might have crossed the cables in the down tube on accident." but, straightaway i said, "nahhhh no way, i was careful." well 250 miles of shite shifting no matter what i did and this tickle in the back of my mind that i did indeed twist my cables up... then your post. i finally checked and sure enough, twisted twice around. undid it and in 15 minutes my sram red was good as new!

cheers!

o

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Calnago
Posts: 6545
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Ha... good work. It is sometimes really difficult... no, I take that back, it is always difficult to be super sure you've only got the cables simply crossing (if you're going that route) over each other and not twisted around each other. What I do now is route both front and rear cables all the way through and out whatever BB opening you have. Then I turn the bike over, and very carefully apply just enough tension so that you can "feel" when you tug on one of the cable to one side if it is actually "pulling" the other one sideways (indicating a twist), or simply touching it (what you want if it is just crossed). It takes a bit of practice I suppose to really be able to tell the difference, but I like to think I've got it down now so that a cable twist inside the downtube is not going to happen on my watch.

One thing you can do to help acquire that "feel" of twisted vs crossed, is to keep purposely twisting them around each other a few times so that you know they're twisted for sure, then with light tension on both carefully untwist them the other way, all the while pulling slightly harder on one versus the other to see if it pulls it, one twist at a time and keep striving for the most "non-twisted" feeling. You can over twist and go the other way as well, then untwist again until you're sure you've got it right. Ha... this is a twisted conversaion... but maybe you get the idea.

Once I know they're not crossed, I tape them to their respective sides so when I add liners or whatever, I can make sure I don't inadvertently twist them up again.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

octave
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm

by octave

Calnago wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:34 pm
Ha... good work. It is sometimes really difficult... no, I take that back, it is always difficult to be super sure you've only got the cables simply crossing (if you're going that route) over each other and not twisted around each other. What I do now is route both front and rear cables all the way through and out whatever BB opening you have. Then I turn the bike over, and very carefully apply just enough tension so that you can "feel" when you tug on one of the cable to one side if it is actually "pulling" the other one sideways (indicating a twist), or simply touching it (what you want if it is just crossed). It takes a bit of practice I suppose to really be able to tell the difference, but I like to think I've got it down now so that a cable twist inside the downtube is not going to happen on my watch.

One thing you can do to help acquire that "feel" of twisted vs crossed, is to keep purposely twisting them around each other a few times so that you know they're twisted for sure, then with light tension on both carefully untwist them the other way, all the while pulling slightly harder on one versus the other to see if it pulls it, one twist at a time and keep striving for the most "non-twisted" feeling. You can over twist and go the other way as well, then untwist again until you're sure you've got it right. Ha... this is a twisted conversaion... but maybe you get the idea.

Once I know they're not crossed, I tape them to their respective sides so when I add liners or whatever, I can make sure I don't inadvertently twist them up again.
hey, yeah, it is shocking actually that i had never twisted them up before. but, as i was untwisting them in my lapierre last night, i realized that what probably happened was i routed them through the top of the downtube, poked them out the bottom bracket trap door, then threaded them through the bb cable guide... then let the cable guide go and hang down while i searched for who knows what... and what i discovered last night is when that cable guide was just dangling down with the cables routed, it, without fail,spun a 180 due to whatever forces were at work... so the cables crossed. then, no doubt, i went to turn the right direction and so turned it 180 again, but in the same direction so that the crossed cables were now twisted... ugh!

the big giveaway that they were twisted was when i would shift from big ring to small ring, my rear derailleur would shift... i started paying attention and, sure enough, when i shifted into my small ring i could see the rear derailleur move just a little! ugh! you learn something new every build...

thanks again. and i hope, OP, that everything can get sorted with your own shifting.

o

wilwil
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Calnago wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:07 pm
@wilwil.... could it be that your original Colnago hanger had possibly seen just too much bending back and forth in attempt to make things right? Several bends will soften up even the best hangers, they're not meant to be bent over and over again. On the C60's, I'm pretty sure the hangers are CNC'd aluminum the same as the Wheels Mfg ones. At least I can't tell a difference in their quality, and I've examined them pretty closely. I was thinking of doing an experiment with a Wheels Manufacturing Hanger held in a vice to see just how much bending it would take before breaking, mostly because I was dealing with Pinarello that needed a whole of bending to set right, and I'm afraid the dropouts might break with it during the process.
No it was new. I checked it before I built the bike and it was straight so no bending required. I had the same issue on an Extreme Power too.

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Calnago
Posts: 6545
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Interesting... I don't find the C60 hangers to be any differently constructed or weaker than the Wheels Mfg. hangers. Wheels Mfg. didn't make a hanger for the C59, so I'm glad they're producing them for the C60 at least.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

XCProMD
Posts: 624
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

Metal will not change Young modulus after going over yield point, @Calnago . It just will lift yield point and, particularly in the case of aluminium, fatigue the material a great deal.


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Calnago
Posts: 6545
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Does that mean with repeated bending, it gets weaker, cuz that’s what I was saying or at least thought I was. Like bending a piece of tin repeatedly. Fold it enough times and it will come apart at the fold.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

XCProMD
Posts: 624
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

Exactly. That’s fatigue. But Young or elasticity modules remains the same unless the material gets really hot ( red hot, actually).




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