Round handlebars on aero frame?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
PLuKE
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:26 pm
Location: Suffolk, UK

by PLuKE

My Cipollini Bond frame should be here this week, I have already bought my bars and stem, which are Deda Superleggera.

Now, I feel like I have made a mistake? The frame is semi aero, and I am using 404FC wheels, am I going to loose out on some aero gains being with a round handlebar?

My current bike, now demoted to a winter/wet bike has 3T aeronova bars, which I like the shape over all.

Zipp/3T/Easton aero bars have a small weight penalty over the Deda Superleggra, I think somewhere around 50-70g which is very small.

Input please guys.....

Thanks
Luke

audiojan
Posts: 785
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: New Hampshire

by audiojan

The difference is quite significant... According to Zipp's website, the SL-70 Aero bar creates 0.11N of drag at 30mph compared to 0.74N for a round bar. This equates to approximately 1.1 watts vs. 7.5 watts.

But they are heavier... at longer and steeper climbs, the weight difference will trump aero, but for everything else, aero will trump the weight.
"Suddenly the thought struck me; my floor is someone elses ceiling" - Nils Ferlin

by Weenie


Shrike
Posts: 1259
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

No biggie. If it's bothering you then sell the Deda's on and get something else. Personally I'd get an aggressive looking aero cockpit to match the aggressive frame.

What colour is your Bond? Congrats btw! Class looking machine.

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TonyM
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

I would definitely go for an aero handlebar or stem/ handlebar combo with your aero (or semi aero) bike!

Better in terms of efficiency and also in terms of optics.

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LeDuke
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Location: Front Range, CO

by LeDuke

If you're going to go with a round bar, you might as well get a non-issue, lighter frame a shallow, super light wheels.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


PLuKE
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:26 pm
Location: Suffolk, UK

by PLuKE

audiojan wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:58 pm
The difference is quite significant... According to Zipp's website, the SL-70 Aero bar creates 0.11N of drag at 30mph compared to 0.74N for a round bar. This equates to approximately 1.1 watts vs. 7.5 watts.

But they are heavier... at longer and steeper climbs, the weight difference will trump aero, but for everything else, aero will trump the weight.
Hmmm, I was going to go all aero, but thought I would go with something different, no I am having second thoughts.

My riding, 90% is mainly flat, or quick sharp climbs maxing at 10%.

Luke

PLuKE
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:26 pm
Location: Suffolk, UK

by PLuKE

Shrike wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:05 pm
No biggie. If it's bothering you then sell the Deda's on and get something else. Personally I'd get an aggressive looking aero cockpit to match the aggressive frame.

What colour is your Bond? Congrats btw! Class looking machine.
I do like my current setup with the 3T Aeronova.

The Bond is in white/carbon.

I shall be posting photo's up once the frame arrives :)

Luke

Marin
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Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Deda Superzero!

dim
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
Location: Cambridge UK

by dim

this is something that I'm struggling to understand .....

so.... you buy an expensive aero cockpit (I was considering buying the new Giant Contact SLR Aero handlebar cockpit)

then you go for a ride, but you have your hands on the hoods, (or on the drops) and your big body and chest is directly behind the aero handlebars .... so whats the point of aero? ....

I know they do tunnel wind tests etc but do they actually put a dummy on the bike when they test this?

I'm all for a lighter carbon handlebar/stem, but I'm not sure if expensive aero (thats costs the same or more) will make me any faster?
Last edited by dim on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hannawald
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm

by hannawald

go for aero because of the looks:) i had same dilemma on my Scott Foil, wanted to save weight, but i am happy i have decided to buy Pro aero bars. when i mounted them on the bike, i immediately knew that they were perfect..

blamester
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:33 pm

by blamester

audiojan wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:58 pm
The difference is quite significant... According to Zipp's website, the SL-70 Aero bar creates 0.11N of drag at 30mph compared to 0.74N for a round bar. This equates to approximately 1.1 watts vs. 7.5 watts.

But they are heavier... at longer and steeper climbs, the weight difference will trump aero, but for everything else, aero will trump the weight.
What the difference at 20mph or 25mph.
How often or for how long can you sit at 30mph unassisted to gain theses 6.5 watts?
I see this all the time such and such saves this many watss at 45 kph.
Are you already tucked in tighter than a misers wallet?
I am not saying don't get it or it's a waste of money but it won't make you fast.

audiojan
Posts: 785
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: New Hampshire

by audiojan

blamester wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:03 pm
What the difference at 20mph or 25mph.
How often or for how long can you sit at 30mph unassisted to gain theses 6.5 watts?
I see this all the time such and such saves this many watss at 45 kph.
Are you already tucked in tighter than a misers wallet?
I am not saying don't get it or it's a waste of money but it won't make you fast.
Sorry, good point. That was calculated at 40kph (24mph). There's lots of data available on the web showing savings round vs aero, narrow vs. wide. Ideal would be aero and narrow...

Holding 24mph for some time is not that far fetched and I do realize it's small gains here, but adding up 5-6W on the handlebars, 5W on the frame, 5W on the wheels, well, it all adds up. It is worth the $, that's up to the buyer and the wallet. :noidea:
"Suddenly the thought struck me; my floor is someone elses ceiling" - Nils Ferlin

Lieblingsleguan
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm

by Lieblingsleguan

dim wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:22 pm
then you go for a ride, but you have your hands on the hoods, (or on the drops) and your big body and chest is directly behind the aero handlebars .... so whats the point of aero? ....

I know they do tunnel wind tests etc but do they actually put a dummy on the bike when they test this?
Well, the air still has to pass both the handlebar and the body. What you are saying would maybe be valid if the handlebar were behind the big body.

A lot but not all wind tunnel tests are performed with a dummy or sometimes a rider.

There are also big gains to be achieved by using a handlebar as small as you feel comfortable with. The difference between a wide and a narrow handlebar is bigger than aero vs non-aero handlebar (so a narrow aero handlebar should be in order :-)).

Whether all that is worth it if you aren't actually competing with the bike is up to you. Personally, I'd get what looks best.

Hexsense
Posts: 463
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

dim wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:22 pm
this is something that I'm struggling to understand .....

so.... you buy an expensive aero cockpit (I was considering buying the new Giant Contact SLR Aero handlebar cockpit)

then you go for a ride, but you have your hands on the hoods, (or on the drops) and your big body and chest is directly behind the aero handlebars .... so whats the point of aero? ....

I know they do tunnel wind tests etc but do they actually put a dummy on the bike when they test this?
front wheel has top tube and rear wheel behind it, yet it is the more significant being aero vs non-aero than rear wheel.
Round tube create turbulence that pull the bike back a lot more than tear drop shape. Wind pulled the bike back just behind the bar and be done long before your body reach that part of air. if your body is directly touching behind the bar that would negate this turbulence just like deep wheel fill the void to reduce air gap cross section behind the rim (or zero it in case of full disc rim).
So yes, the difference should still be there noticeably, but how much exactly is unknown unless tested.

some indication that the bar could be pretty aero are
-Being narrow, reduce rider's cross section
-Drop part must stay in line with your hand and arm rather than misalign and both hit the air (Enve's design of large flare drop make a lot of sense). This matter when you use drop, but not at all when you don't.
-top part are aero shaped.

by Weenie


PLuKE
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:26 pm
Location: Suffolk, UK

by PLuKE

I want any marginal gains I can, my fitness could be worked on, alot! which would make a massive difference over anything else.

I am hoping I wouldn't see any aero gain loss, or anything in the real world. I usually sit around 18-20mph, my terrain is mostly flat like I said.

With this frame, is aero and so are the wheels. I also see some pro's use aero frames, yet round bars.

I shall see how I get on for a few months with the Superleggera, and review.

Thanks
Luke

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