Madone Disc Spotted

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1765
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The new wheels are listed on Trek’s website now.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equi ... ag%3Aen_US#

Claimed weight for the XXX 4 Disc is 1455g (47mm deep,) didn’t see other weights.

spartan
Posts: 1169
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equi ... =black_red


notice the new shape. less blunt more v shape(bora shape). laser track braking service(bora diamante finish)

nice
Current Rides:

2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

by Weenie


spartan
Posts: 1169
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

XXX 28 mm clincher tlr 1305gm
XXX 47 mm clincher tlr 1400gm
XXX 60 mm clincher tlr 1530 gm
they claim superior aero/stability vs Enve/Zipp. laser track braking surface/21 inner width

the disc wheels have same shape

XXX 28 mm disc clincher tlr 1380 gm
XXX 47 mm disc clincher tlr 1455gm
XXX 60 mm disc clincher tlr 1575 gm

also new bonty pro budget 50mm tubeless wheelset. cheap/good
Current Rides:

2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

jlok
Posts: 674
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

very respectable weight. how's the lacing? is it 2:1?

Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk

Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1765
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1765
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

jlok wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:01 pm
very respectable weight. how's the lacing? is it 2:1?

For disc, the front is 2x on the disc-rotor side and radial on the other. Rear is 2x both sides.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1765
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

spartan wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:15 pm

they claim superior aero/stability vs Enve/Zipp. laser track braking surface/21 inner width

Looks like one of the reasons why the Bontrager XXX might have superior aero is because they're just narrower rims than the newer ENVEs and Zipps. Notice in the official video they don't have the 27mm wide ENVE 3.4s in the test...they were probably too competitive when using "25c" tires.

28mm clincher = 27mm
28mm tubular = 27mm
47mm clincher = 27mm
47mm tubular = 28mm
60mm clincher = 28mm
60mm tubular = 27mm

My Zipp 202 NSWs are 29mm wide.

Tire choice probably played the biggest role in the comparison test. The chart in the video also starts at 300g side force and 90g drag rather than 0g.

E: Yep. “All drag and side force measurements are of front wheel only with a Bontrager 25c R4 tire.”

Alumen
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:47 pm

by Alumen

Weird.... that you don't see a shadow of the frame / seat post on that wall behind it, while all the other shadows on that picture are in that direction...

But could be me...
CAAD 10 2015

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1765
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Alumen wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:54 pm
Weird.... that you don't see a shadow of the frame / seat post on that wall behind it, while all the other shadows on that picture are in that direction...

But could be me...
Don’t be silly. It’s not that close to the wall and it is obviously sometime in the early afternoon. There are zero shadows of anything projected on the wall. The one silhouette of a saddle isn’t a shadow...it’s the actual saddle of a bike in the middle of the frame.

wingguy
Posts: 4193
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:25 pm
spartan wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:15 pm

they claim superior aero/stability vs Enve/Zipp. laser track braking surface/21 inner width
Looks like one of the reasons why the Bontrager XXX might have superior aero is because they're just narrower rims than the newer ENVEs and Zipps.
But they didn't test them against the newer Enves ;) In fact, they kinda cherry picked the narrowest Enve designs they could get to test against - the 6.7 was discontinued 2 years ago because the 7.8 is more stable than it was and faster than an 8.9, and the 4.5 is the oldest wheel in the range that Enve currently still make.

Reading between the lines, I'm guessing that Trek found out the newer, wider Enve designs are really really good :P

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1765
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Yeah wingguy, the main fault of the older ENVEs and non-tubeless disc Zipp NSWs is the narrower internal width pinching the sidewalls inward instead of leaving the sidewalls more flush with the edge of the rim.

The combo of 25mm tires + 27mm wide rims + 21mm bead hook distance is a Goldilocks scenario compared to using 25mm tires + 28-29mm rims + 21 mm bead hooks or 25mm tires + 27mm rims + 18-19mm bead hooks.

spartan
Posts: 1169
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

if you think wider internal width generates better aero numbers think again. dt/swissside extensive development reveals best aero for a 25mm tire is internal width of 17 external 27mm.

only independent disc road aero tests done so far. 3t internal width is a mere 18mm but delivers the best aero.
in real world comment wind angles all these wheels are within 1-2 watts .

http://www.tour-magazin.de/komponenten/ ... 45092.html

Image

Image
Current Rides:

2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1765
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The 3T wheels are 58mm being compared to 35-46mm wheels in the graphs you linked. Of course they are more aero at all angles, though only slightly more aero at shallow ones.

Hexsense
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

bigger internal rim width lower tire rolling resistance and improve tire stability in corner.
It make tire bigger, however. So if the tire becoming too wide for the external width and shape design for, aero will suffer. With 28mm external width toroidal shape (that is widest at the center of the rim rather than at brake track), tire shouldn't be wider than 26.67mm to enjoy best aero, and no wider than 28mm to avoid big impact of tire wider than rim. 23c on 21mm is already 27.3mm wide, so 21mm internal width are better match 29-32mm external width for 25c rather than just 27-28mm (or just use 23c which is already wide on these rims).

It only count as improving aero if it allow you to use narrower tire instead of bigger tire size on narrower internal width rim. For example, 23c on 21mm internal width run about the same width as 25c on 17mm but tire shape are less bulbous and being more aero.

by Weenie


jlok
Posts: 674
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

so we need to have a balance between rr and aero as they are both a function of effective tire width on a particular tire rim combination. fast ride near 40kph will benefit more from aero while slower rides like 30kph will have greater influence from rr... imho

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Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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