How Can I really be sure that Canyon USA is telling me the truth...

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
sd5500
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:32 pm

by sd5500

..about the chainstays being asymmetrical causing the rear tire to be closer to the driveside chainstay? The bike in question is the Inflite CF SLX 9.0 Pro. The buying process has been less than smooth to say the least. Although customer service has been nice and accommodating, Canyon USA is not quite ready for prime time. There a few reasons why I'm questioning what they told me yesterday; 1) the first bike they sent me had the wrong size stem and crank length. When I called asking about what I received vs specs on the website, they were not sure how that could have happened. To this day, the USA website shows 167.5 crank length for the XS size bike and Europe website shows 170. They shipped me a new bike with the Euro specs, fine. 2) I was told before I bought the bike that 40mm tires would not be a problem at all, but they are. 3) When I called recently about the rear wheel being closer to the driveside chainstay vs non-driveside, I was told that it should be centered and the rear wheel needed dishing. Took the bike to a trusted local shop and wheel dish was checked in front of me and was perfectly fine. Canyon said send it back and we'll take a look. They also sent me photos of another bike they had built with what they were saying was a centered rear wheel. Truth be told, my wheel does look pretty centered with the stock 33mm tire, but you can tell its off a bit. I should mention the the wheel IS centered in the seat stays.

Ok, so the issue started when I installed a Vittoria Terreno Dry 40mm tire, and it became pretty noticeable that there is about a 5mm difference in wheel clearance from side to side. The 40mm might have 3mm clearance on the driveside, so I'm guessing it may rub. After canyon having the bike for a few days with the 40mm tire, they can see what I'm talking about. The tech I spoke with stated that after doing some research on the bike and frame, what is happening is normal for that frame. If that is the case, I think I can live with it, and just run some smaller tires for the few gravel races/rides I want to do. I'll most likely run the 33mm for cross races anyways, so not issue there at all.

At the end of the day, I just want to know for sure that I don't have a bent frame, or one with a poor carbon layup job on the seat stays. I assumed that when I received the bike back, I would notice a thicker drive side chainstay, but its the non-driveside that is actually a little thicker. Anyone have any thoughts on how I can truely be sure that what I'm being told by the tech is true? I'm gonna try to see if there is a way I can email a canyon tech in europe, but I have a feeling they will just point me in the direction of the USA tech center.

Valbrona
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Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

by Valbrona

Haven't read all of your post ...

But if the rear wheel isn't in straight it will most likely be because of misaligned dropouts. If we are talking QR dropouts and not thru-axle you should stick in a pair of dropout alignment guides to test for correct alignment.

If the dropouts are very badly aligned, you might have a warranty claim. But what a manufacturers typically do is say 'That's the best standard we manufacture to'.

There is a bit of a workaround with misaligned dropiuts, but it only works with QR. Get yourself a DT Swiss Thru-Bolt (yes, Thru-Bolt) and a heavy duty end nut that can take a high torque, and then carefully align wheel straight in frame before doing Thru-Bolt up really tight. Try this with the end nut that comes with a Thru-Bolt and it will probably rip the threads out.

sd5500
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:32 pm

by sd5500

yeah, sorry for the long post, I felt I have to explain why I'm questioning why they're saying. The bike has a thru axels, 12x142mm in the rear. If drop outs were off, would wheel be off in the seat stays also? Wheel is centered in the seat stays. I emailed Canyon Germany and asked if the frame has asymmetrical chainstays causing the wheel to be closer on the drive side.

AJS914
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

It seems like you need to run a straight edge off of the bottom bracket shell and measure to each side of the rim or take it to a frame builder who could put it in a jig and take some measurements. You could also do some caliper measurements of the chainstays to see if they are different thicknesses. I would do any measurements to the rim rather than the tire. It will be more precise.

My guess is that it's a little bit off and it gets noticeable when you put the extra large tire on. But that may be the best you get with a Canyon mail order frame. I'd probably just go with it.

bremerradkurier
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm

by bremerradkurier

You could also run a thread from each rear axle hole, run it around the headtube, pull taut, and measure the distance from the thread to the centerline of the seat tube-should be identical or very, very close.

sd5500
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:32 pm

by sd5500

I appreciate the responses. Sounds like you may be calling BS on what I'm being told from Canyon USA? Hopefully Germany will email me back with clarification.

Not sure I understand where your going with the "Canyon mail order frame" part, but thanks for the advice.

AJS914
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Canyon is a lower price point product. They say that they do it by cutting out the middle man. But is their QC as good as Giant or Specialized? It's also mail order so you can't go down to your local dealer with your wheel and confirm that all of those frames are exactly the same.

Valbrona
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Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

by Valbrona

sd5500 wrote:If drop outs were off, would wheel be off in the seat stays also?


Not necessarily. Only needs to be out a little at the dropouts.

You could jump up and down a lot a complain that there is an alignment issue with this frame, but any frame you might get in replacement might come with just the same issue.

Gonna be a lot more cases like this with TA's as you don't get any wiggle room.

topflightpro
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:35 am

by topflightpro

it's rather probable that the wheel will be a bit closer to the DS chainstay, which has to run back straight from the BB to provide clearance for the chainrings. The NDS stay has a bit more room to start moving out.

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rainerhq
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by rainerhq

AJS914 wrote:But is their QC as good as Giant or Specialized?

:D :D :D :D :D :D
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sd5500
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:32 pm

by sd5500

AJS914 wrote:Canyon is a lower price point product. They say that they do it by cutting out the middle man. But is their QC as good as Giant or Specialized? It's also mail order so you can't go down to your local dealer with your wheel and confirm that all of those frames are exactly the same.


I don't want to get into a back and forth, but most of what your saying is debatable,except the part about seeing it local. I'll add this though, when I shopped local at 2 trek shops, neither had a Boone 7. 2 specialized shops didn't have a Crux Expert 1. In both cases I would have had to order one, and wouldn't have been able to compare it with another one in their shop if there was an issue.

Hopefully Germany will simply tell me if its normal or not. If it is, I can live with it. If not, Canyon USA has already offered me a full refund if I want to return it, or again I'll live with it. The bike received really good reviews, and there is a lot about it I like.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

On one of my bikes, tire is a bit closer to chainstay at DS.
(Not a Canyon bike!)
I also noted that so called clearance issue when i tried to use a rather large tire (Schwalbe Rocket Ron Addix).
When i asked, i was told same as you.
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sd5500
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:32 pm

by sd5500

wheelsONfire wrote:On one of my bikes, tire is a bit closer to chainstay at DS.
(Not a Canyon bike!)
I also noted that so called clearance issue when i tried to use a rather large tire (Schwalbe Rocket Ron Addix).
When i asked, i was told same as you.


hmm..sounds like the standard answer, asymmetric chainstays = frame off slightly.

RTW
in the industry
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by RTW

AJS914 wrote:Canyon is a lower price point product. They say that they do it by cutting out the middle man. But is their QC as good as Giant or Specialized?


Absolutely it is as good as. No shadow of doubt. QC saves money by identifying issues and fixing them. Not doing enough QC is more expensive.

There are different cost structures in direct to consumer, and savings to be made in certain areas. But these savings are in distribution and mark ups. Not R&D and QC. That's a false narrative used normally by retailers of other brands to try to sow doubt in the minds of the consumer. To think a premium brand such as Canyon if providing lower quality than the established bigger players is naive. You can't do it. Group tests highlight it.

stormur
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Location: FIN

by stormur

it would be really wonderworld if that could be a truth... unfortunately it's not.

I wouldn't also call "premium" any brand without own production line, outsouricng manufacturing to far east.

Would you buy Blancpain, Tag Heuer or Versace "made in China" ???

It's not "premium" - it's made in China. Same ( unfortunately ) applies to many "reputable" brands. But it is what it is : design & PR studios. They do not manufacture anything.

And it's not made on far east to make it better, but cheaper. In every aspect of its process. That's why more and more people decide to buy "unique" : C60, Time, Cipollini, Campagnolo, Ti/ carbon custom frames... .

"premium" applies ( fully unjustifyingly ) to their pricing. Similar to traditional retail chain, without any real bonus coming from direct sale ( check retailers margin, and imagine what direct selling manufacturer could do for half of that ! )
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
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I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

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