dura ace 9100 can't cross chain

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
LiquidCooled
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:46 am

by LiquidCooled

IrrelevantD wrote:So this kinda goes back to what others have said, but what does Di2 see you're rings as? We know that 53/42 rings work on the 7970, I can attest to 50/36 working on 6870. But as others have said, if you're running (or have Di2 configured as) 52/36, 50/34, etc, you probably won't be able to.

Do you have the Ant+/Bluetooth transmitter or the PC interface so you can go in and change the settings?


6870 allows full cross chaining on 52/36.

Don't know for sure about 8070, but I heard that it defaults to no cross chaining, but one can configure it (via Etube) to allow full cross chaining.

It's interesting that SRAM has a very different view on cross chaining than Shimano:

"At SRAM we love big-big. Amongst mechanics on the NORBA and Mountain Bike World Cup circuit (many years ago!), we called big-big the 'pro gear’, because professionals would ride it all the time, no matter what their mechanics told them. The same applies to pro road racers. They'll stay on the big ring as long as possible [...] So we would encourage your readers to ride big-big if they like, as long as they don’t experience chain rasp on the front derailleur cage."

http://road.cc/content/feature/213468-c ... ly-all-bad
2017 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2003 Cannondale R1000 (CAAD7)

SilentDrone
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by SilentDrone

I think this is more about design philosophy. Shimano markets the Di2 a something that shift “perfectly”. So it’s designed not to allow cross chaining because that’s not “perfect” shifting. If the rider wants the freedom to operate outside those perfect parameters maybe try a mechanical group.


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by Weenie


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ergott
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by ergott

Lelandjt wrote:Troll or Trump voter. Or both. Let me guess, you love your new disc brakes.
Please don't post garbage like this on the forum. There's a legitimate discussion going on that I for one am interested in reading.

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ergott
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by ergott

Lelandjt wrote:You legitimately want to use small/small? Are you new?


I won't dignify your comment with an answer to your question. Perhaps you can dial back the superiority complex a bit.

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

LiquidCooled wrote:It's interesting that SRAM has a very different view on cross chaining than Shimano:

"At SRAM we love big-big. Amongst mechanics on the NORBA and Mountain Bike World Cup circuit (many years ago!), we called big-big the 'pro gear’, because professionals would ride it all the time, no matter what their mechanics told them. The same applies to pro road racers. They'll stay on the big ring as long as possible [...] So we would encourage your readers to ride big-big if they like, as long as they don’t experience chain rasp on the front derailleur cage."


yea, I like SRAM's take on it, and you can trim the front derailleur on Big-Big with Di2 the same way you do for the rear. I figured this out after switching to oval rings and having the chain start dropping off the big ring in the biggest two cogs on the cassette. I do wish Shimano would make their system a little bit more open and easier to manage. As small as the wireless transmitter actually is, I'd be willing to bet they could move that into a 3-port junction box without it becoming much larger than a 5-port. Would make it easier for user customization.
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

kode54
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by kode54

i don't mind that Di2 limits the cross chaining.

on one bike, i have 9070 shifters and 9150 FD and RD. same thing. limits the cross chaining.
on the other bike, Di2 9070...cross chaining is possible with old firmware. didn't update firmware.
third bike...all Di2 9150. same as first bike. cross chain limits.
- AX Lightness Vial EVO D + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9150 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 6.7 CK hubs
- Guru Praemio R Titanium + DA9150 + Enve 3.4 CK hubs

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ergott
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by ergott

I have Di2 and never noticed the limitation because I never tried. I'm more likely to cross the other way but even then it's never the big big. I'd say I limit crossing to the third cog on either end. In racing though I've seen it all, just look at Schleckgate. He "lost" the tour due to poor gear choice resulting in chain drop;-) We do strange things under duress!

BdaGhisallo
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by BdaGhisallo

kode54 wrote:i don't mind that Di2 limits the cross chaining.

on one bike, i have 9070 shifters and 9150 FD and RD. same thing. limits the cross chaining.
on the other bike, Di2 9070...cross chaining is possible with old firmware. didn't update firmware.
third bike...all Di2 9150. same as first bike. cross chain limits.


I think the cross chain restriction is imposed by the DI2 software on the 9150 RD because of its design compared to the traditional 9070 design. I have updated my firmware recently on my 9070 RD, FD and 9150 STI and I am able to cross chain to my heart's content.

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

I love big big.. small small not so much

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

LiquidCooled wrote:It's interesting that SRAM has a very different view on cross chaining than Shimano:

"At SRAM we love big-big. Amongst mechanics on the NORBA and Mountain Bike World Cup circuit (many years ago!), we called big-big the 'pro gear’, because professionals would ride it all the time, no matter what their mechanics told them. The same applies to pro road racers. They'll stay on the big ring as long as possible [...] So we would encourage your readers to ride big-big if they like, as long as they don’t experience chain rasp on the front derailleur cage."

http://road.cc/content/feature/213468-c ... ly-all-bad


eTAP HRD here with 410mm chainstays and compact chainrings. 2x1,2,3 results chain rasp...not with the FD cage, but just the chainline angle causing mesh issues.

Delorre
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by Delorre

Instead of opening a new thread for it, I may ask here, as it's related. Did my fist ride on the new bike, DA 9170 equiped. 52/36 and 12-25 cassette. Have to say, shifting is absolutely spot on, even better than my other two 9070 bikes. But, and that bothers me somewhat, I have some issues when cross chain in the big ring. In the small ring, regarless of sproket used, eveything is silent, even at short 500 or 600w efforts, in or out of the saddle. Just perfect! In the big ring however, from the 19T and up (direction 25T), once let's say 400w, and especially out of the saddle, the chain makes a creaking noice at the back. Eveyhing is new, I kept the factory lube on the chain, cassette it torqued down to spec, only the true axles where not as thight as it should ,I discoverd after the ride.

Any idea what causes this noice at high intensity? With moderate efforts, I don't hear anything, the chain seems to run smooth.

KLabs
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by KLabs

Delorre wrote:Instead of opening a new thread for it, I may ask here, as it's related. Did my fist ride on the new bike, DA 9170 equiped. 52/36 and 12-25 cassette. Have to say, shifting is absolutely spot on, even better than my other two 9070 bikes. But, and that bothers me somewhat, I have some issues when cross chain in the big ring. In the small ring, regarless of sproket used, eveything is silent, even at short 500 or 600w efforts, in or out of the saddle. Just perfect! In the big ring however, from the 19T and up (direction 25T), once let's say 400w, and especially out of the saddle, the chain makes a creaking noice at the back. Eveyhing is new, I kept the factory lube on the chain, cassette it torqued down to spec, only the true axles where not as thight as it should ,I discoverd after the ride.

Any idea what causes this noice at high intensity? With moderate efforts, I don't hear anything, the chain seems to run smooth.


Maybe it's related to the DA cassette, viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118879&p=1361134#p1361134

Andrewjn
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:54 am

by Andrewjn

I had to chase back to a pack going hard, dead into a strong head wind and dropped the rear into the 12 so not to loose my cadence / stroke too much. Was a conscious decision to do this until I regained them. Not an ideal situation from a cross view point but I had the option

Delorre
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by Delorre

KLabs wrote:
Delorre wrote:Instead of opening a new thread for it, I may ask here, as it's related. Did my fist ride on the new bike, DA 9170 equiped. 52/36 and 12-25 cassette. Have to say, shifting is absolutely spot on, even better than my other two 9070 bikes. But, and that bothers me somewhat, I have some issues when cross chain in the big ring. In the small ring, regarless of sproket used, eveything is silent, even at short 500 or 600w efforts, in or out of the saddle. Just perfect! In the big ring however, from the 19T and up (direction 25T), once let's say 400w, and especially out of the saddle, the chain makes a creaking noice at the back. Eveyhing is new, I kept the factory lube on the chain, cassette it torqued down to spec, only the true axles where not as thight as it should ,I discoverd after the ride.

Any idea what causes this noice at high intensity? With moderate efforts, I don't hear anything, the chain seems to run smooth.


Maybe it's related to the DA cassette, viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118879&p=1361134#p1361134


Cassette is new, and it made the noice from the first ime it did cross chain, after only a couple of km's. And sorry, English is not my native language, the word creaking is not really correct, it's more a grinding noice, the same as you get after a rainy ride and you chain is drying. Creaking is something totally different, I know whern it really that (skewer, headset, BB, you name it), here, the best I can discribe it, is grinding. Hope this helps to clarify ;-)

Geoff
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Location: Canada

by Geoff

Lots of guys don't race and have never been forced to cross-chain. For sure, it isn't ideal, but sometimes you have no reasonable choice.

by Weenie


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