Carbon fiber spokes + Alloy Rim = DISASTER(for MAVIC users)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
CallumRD1
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:54 pm

by CallumRD1

whosatthewheel wrote:It is a bit surprising to see a folded wheel on an otherwise perfect bike... surely such catastrophic failure would lead to significant damage to the bike


Unless it only fully folded when the bike came to a stop or was moved post accident.

by Weenie


mike
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by mike

two bikes at the same time? very extraordinary indeed.

TheKaiser
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

Those look like the post (early 2009) recall models, as they have the kevlar internal yarn within the carbon spoke tubes. Even still, I didn't know people still trusted these wheels after a couple high profile failures several years ago. Here is an article from summer 2009 where the then Velonews editor had his (post recall) front wheel fail in a local crit. Pics aren't working for me right now, but that might just be my browser. Im sure you can find them archived elsewhere if they don't work for you:
http://www.velonews.com/2009/06/bikes-a ... lure_93054

And then here is Mavic's response:
http://www.velonews.com/2009/06/news/ma ... icle_93240

The Velonews editor also broke his top tube as in the case the OP mentioned, and basically Mavic says that the cause is still unknown but they believe that the evidence supports the crash causing the wheel failure, not the other way around. I agree it is somewhat mysterious, but I sure wouldn't ride them. Plus they are bricks from an aero perspective.

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wheelbuilder
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Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

mike wrote:two bikes at the same time? very extraordinary indeed.


I wasn't at the same time. OP stated that the Focus was a month earlier.

scottmmw
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:31 am

by scottmmw

Had about 4000 miles on my r-sys with some very fast descending including the Pyrenees and never had anything but the upmost confidence in them.

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573
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK.

by 573

I have a set of R-SYS SLRs and they're absolutely rock solid. I bunny-hop on them all the time and I'll happily say I'm a very fast descender and put more stress through them than most people would.

I had a large crash a few years ago, I cartwheeled down a mountain into a solid wall and the rear wheel took the initial impact. The damage looked like this:

Image

The rim deformed significantly out of shape and also had a deformation from the initial impact. Spokes were still rock solid.

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wheelbuilder
Posts: 482
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by wheelbuilder

TheKaiser wrote:Those look like the post (early 2009) recall models, as they have the kevlar internal yarn within the carbon spoke tubes. Even still, I didn't know people still trusted these wheels after a couple high profile failures several years ago. Here is an article from summer 2009 where the then Velonews editor had his (post recall) front wheel fail in a local crit. Pics aren't working for me right now, but that might just be my browser. Im sure you can find them archived elsewhere if they don't work for you:
http://www.velonews.com/2009/06/bikes-a ... lure_93054

And then here is Mavic's response:
http://www.velonews.com/2009/06/news/ma ... icle_93240

The Velonews editor also broke his top tube as in the case the OP mentioned, and basically Mavic says that the cause is still unknown but they believe that the evidence supports the crash causing the wheel failure, not the other way around. I agree it is somewhat mysterious, but I sure wouldn't ride them. Plus they are bricks from an aero perspective.


Good memory! Those are the post recall wheels as they have those silver stripes on the spokes. Terrible. I don't believe the OP is being untruthful or nefarious in any way.

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573
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK.

by 573

It's a tiny sample though.

I wonder if a wheel with steel spokes ever failed in a catastrophic way? Nope never. :lol:

TheKaiser
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

573 wrote:It's a tiny sample though.

I wonder if a wheel with steel spokes ever failed in a catastrophic way? Nope never. :lol:


True, all wheels can fail. It would be great to know failure rates vs. comparable steel spoked wheels, but unfortunately there isn't that level of data collection efficiency or industry transparency. One thing that is working against the R-sys from a PR standpoint, is that they look horrible when they fail. Shattered carbon is a lot less confidence inspiring than bent steel, at least to my eye. That, combined with the way that these stories present the failure, generally saying that the wheel "suddenly collapsed", gives the impression of a very poor failure mode vs. the experience most of us have had with steel spoked aluminium rimmed wheels. It could be that 99.999% of R-sys users are totally happy and find their wheels bombproof, but its really tough to tell from the info available.

whosatthewheel
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by whosatthewheel

There is nothing particularly special about R-SYS... the tracomp technology is based on old wood cart wheels... so if you like it's more tried and tested than steel spokes in tension.

I still think those photos are impacts... wheels don't fold like that, tracomp or not

AJS914
Posts: 2122
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Wooden cart wheels didn't use lightweight carbon spokes.

Just knowing the way carbon fails, I'd never ride carbon spokes. If a carbon spoke gets a side impact it may shatter. A steel spoke will bend/deform.

ohhyeok90
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:24 am

by ohhyeok90

kkibbler wrote:...rider weight?


I'm not sure exact weight but those riders look very slim.

BH rider may 65 to max 80kg(including bike weight)

Focus rider definitely under 75kg(including bike weight)

ohhyeok90
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:24 am

by ohhyeok90

wingguy wrote:
ohhyeok90 wrote:How is possible? second rider and I wish to know that.

From your description it sounds like he got speed wobble, crashed, and that damaged the wheel.


nope. speed wobble tend to happen front wheel when high speed.

wheel fail first and therefore they fall off.

anyway if you're saying is right, minor crash makes wheel right that? that's problem also.

ohhyeok90
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:24 am

by ohhyeok90

TheKaiser wrote:Those look like the post (early 2009) recall models, as they have the kevlar internal yarn within the carbon spoke tubes. Even still, I didn't know people still trusted these wheels after a couple high profile failures several years ago. Here is an article from summer 2009 where the then Velonews editor had his (post recall) front wheel fail in a local crit. Pics aren't working for me right now, but that might just be my browser. Im sure you can find them archived elsewhere if they don't work for you:
http://www.velonews.com/2009/06/bikes-a ... lure_93054

And then here is Mavic's response:
http://www.velonews.com/2009/06/news/ma ... icle_93240

The Velonews editor also broke his top tube as in the case the OP mentioned, and basically Mavic says that the cause is still unknown but they believe that the evidence supports the crash causing the wheel failure, not the other way around. I agree it is somewhat mysterious, but I sure wouldn't ride them. Plus they are bricks from an aero perspective.


BH rider bought R-sys definitely after 2009, and Ksyrium 125 released 2014.

I guess they fail to solve problem. their baseless hope makes these catastrophic disaster.

by Weenie


ohhyeok90
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:24 am

by ohhyeok90

TheKaiser wrote:
573 wrote:It's a tiny sample though.

I wonder if a wheel with steel spokes ever failed in a catastrophic way? Nope never. :lol:


True, all wheels can fail. It would be great to know failure rates vs. comparable steel spoked wheels, but unfortunately there isn't that level of data collection efficiency or industry transparency. One thing that is working against the R-sys from a PR standpoint, is that they look horrible when they fail. Shattered carbon is a lot less confidence inspiring than bent steel, at least to my eye. That, combined with the way that these stories present the failure, generally saying that the wheel "suddenly collapsed", gives the impression of a very poor failure mode vs. the experience most of us have had with steel spoked aluminium rimmed wheels. It could be that 99.999% of R-sys users are totally happy and find their wheels bombproof, but its really tough to tell from the info available.


well...
I don't have millions friends using those wheels. maybe under 20-30.

but already watching 2 people involving acident by folded rim.

statistically it is over 10% failure for me, realistically.

and I saw several issues also.

tracomp spokes breaks, hub issues makes can't control rear wheel(fixed in recent instant 360 hub) etc...

AND I THINK, wheel should not fold like that unless huge crash or impact cause.

I hope to hear what Mavic says but they didn't respond so... you should be careful those who using it. that's all what I want to say.

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