Is 2018 the year proper race bikes with discs gain momentum?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Shrike
Posts: 1259
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Throwing in some fuel to the fire :D

Katusha Strade Bianche vid. Fast forward to 1min 04sec, the rider complains his rim brakes don't work:

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/videos/rac ... de-bianche

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1378
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

jih wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:36 pm

Why would someone have to use the brakes to overtake? I didn't follow this point.

Do you mean like, braking after overtaking someone to get the speed down again?
He means braking harder and later in a corner in order to close the gap on another rider. However this scenario is precisely why some pros don’t want mixed pelotons. They don’t want there to be discrepancies in braking power when everyone is riding shoulder to shoulder, fearing pile-ups.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1378
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Shrike wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:09 pm
Throwing in some fuel to the fire :D

Katusha Strade Bianche vid. Fast forward to 1min 04sec, the rider complains his rim brakes don't work:

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/videos/rac ... de-bianche

I do wonder how many races like that it would take to completely destroy a carbon brake track. All the dirt and grit getting embedded in the pads...

dcorn
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm

by dcorn

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 am
There simply won't ever be a time when the lightest functional disc-brake bike is lighter than the lightest functional rim-brake bike. Rotors are an additional component. Reinforcements are needed in both the wheels and frames. We won't see something like carbon bodied disc calipers, but we do already have THM Fibula carbon rim brake calipers. That's okay though, the extra weight is worth never having to worry about delamination from overheating.
I don't see why any of this is impossible. Road disc brakes are only in their infancy. Yes, they've been on mtn bikes for a long time, but manufacturers didn't really have a reason to make the calipers or rotors any lighter because the frames and all other components were so heavy. Do we know if any company has experimented with different materials for disc brake components? I assume the calipers are made of aluminum, but who's to say they couldn't use magnesium, which is already used in rim brake calipers. Why not use a carbon fiber body for structure, but aluminum or other metal internals? Seems like a good application for forged composite parts. May be pricey, but weight weenie stuff always is.

C36
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

jih wrote:
C36 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:13 am
In cycling you don't have to push the braking point 2m down to overtake.
Why would someone have to use the brakes to overtake? I didn't follow this point.

Do you mean like, braking after overtaking someone to get the speed down again?
Not, indeed, I was dismantling the "discs brake better" argument presented by some manufacturers or some magazines to justify the push toward discs.
As you mentioned we are not in racecars, then disc objectives have no reasons to be the same (ability to modulate and brake as hard as possible to remain your speed as long as possible before entering the curve). Now I do buy that under extreme weather, disc brakes represent a safety point.


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Bordcla
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

Other than the "wearing away expensive rims" argument, which to me (i.e., someone who pays for and takes care of my expensive equipment) is the clincher, it is interesting to note that the all of the rim brake fanatics keep on hammering that rim brakes are "good enough".

By contrast, when is a bike "stiff enough" or, especially here, "light enough" for the same crowd?

No one would dispute that disc brakes are functionally better and are much more optimal braking system. The pushback is 100% a reluctance to change, trying to argue that the reasons for preferring an objectively inferior and more compromised braking system are not simply that: a mere resistance to change.

Well, good news: no one forces you to throw away your existing bike if you like it!

jasjas
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 am

by jasjas

Shrike wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:09 pm
Throwing in some fuel to the fire :D

Katusha Strade Bianche vid. Fast forward to 1min 04sec, the rider complains his rim brakes don't work:

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/videos/rac ... de-bianche
yep and then the rider says he will ride to the other side (of the car) and the mechanic makes an adjustment.... or he was fcuked and wanted a tow for a while....... not unknown, it was on a smooth but very wet bit of tarmac not strada in anycase.

XCProMD
Posts: 584
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

micky wrote:In this kind of situation we can all agree that more options are better than just one.
I agree. Time for a ride Image


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jeffy
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

guyc wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:46 am
23 pages and no-one will have changed their position.
i'm sure it'll happen any moment :roll:

jeffy
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

C36 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:44 pm
under extreme weather, disc brakes represent a safety point.
... but they are simply "better" / safer for descending. It is much easier to control lock-up point / feel the traction of the rubber, never mind that there is zero hand fatigue.

I would be interested in a survey that tracked the correlation between "rim brake advocacy" and "$ amount spent on rim brake bike in last 24 months"

(and the same argument could be made for disks ... although they are not "anti-progress" - note quotes).

I would love to buy a super light rim brake bike (for one they are cheaper and much lighter) .... but having experienced the performance of full hydraulic (for the riding i do) the risk outweighs the benefits.

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Miller
Posts: 1305
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Cluihorth wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:36 am
And SRAM already have disc available. Only Campy to follow.
Campag debuted their disc brake range last May. Campag disc brakes are in the shops, both mech and EPS versions.

mattsurf
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:26 pm

by mattsurf

People do change their mind: In my case, Last Jan I bought a CX bike, because I wanted to ride trails with my son, and I do not like mountain bikes. Even though my CX bike is a 1x11 speed, aluminum frame, and at least 1kg heavier than my road bike, I ended up riding it on road and in club rides from Jan to April, mainly because I felt so much safer with the braking and loved that I could fit 32mm tyres, I was actually debating whether I needed a road bike at all and live with just a TT bike and CX bike. However, the nice weather came, and I fell in love with my road bike again. Then in September I moved to Switzerland, 90% of the time my rim brake road bike is fine, except big mountain descents with lots of hairpin bends. Then winter came, while in the UK I was happy riding a CX bike on club rides, in Switzerland, I found that CX bike less appealing, roads are very smooth, so no advantage with wider tyres (I also had 28mm Turbo Cottons on my road bike since May), rides are longer and hills bigger, however, for me braking is an issue, so when the weather is wet or snowy I take out the CX bike due to its better braking performance. When I decided to change my road bike, it was therefore a pre-requisit to get discs. As it was an ex-demo model, I re-invested the price reduction in a set of Roval 32 CLK wheels, which brings the weight back down to the rim brake version

Do I wish that it was 600g lighter, of course, but it is a compromise I was willing to make. However, I do understand that other people would not be happy with that trade off, especially people who do not cycle in bad weather on poor roads

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wheelbuilder
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

Although I do espouse my love for rim brakes on the road bike, I am not against them at all. I have hydraulic disc on both my mountain bike (orbea Alma) and on my CX bike (Kona Jake the Snake) I love them for singletrack/crappy weather and think there is a definite need for them in certain situations. If I get behind a slow moving car on a long descent, I will pull over and wait five minutes so I can have a clear descent. This disrupts my flow for sure and it is definitely something that is always in the back of my mind.....(overheating carbon clinchers) It has never happened, but I do worry about it. If I was equipped with disc, I'm sure I would have better peace of mind. Just something I deal with, as I prefer rim brakes on the racy road bike.

spdntrxi
Posts: 1632
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

wheelbuilder wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:26 am
Although I do espouse my love for rim brakes on the road bike, I am not against them at all. I have hydraulic disc on both my mountain bike (orbea Alma) and on my CX bike (Kona Jake the Snake) I love them for singletrack/crappy weather and think there is a definite need for them in certain situations. If I get behind a slow moving car on a long descent, I will pull over and wait five minutes so I can have a clear descent. This disrupts my flow for sure and it is definitely something that is always in the back of my mind.....(overheating carbon clinchers) It has never happened, but I do worry about it. If I was equipped with disc, I'm sure I would have better peace of mind. Just something I deal with, as I prefer rim brakes on the racy road bike.

only time I've wanted disc brakes is a few years ago at Levi's GF getting caught behind the fatality before the bridge and we had to ride the brakes single file down -16% gradiants... my hands were tired.

by Weenie


alcatraz
Posts: 974
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I'm a light guy. I absolutely love that people switch to disc brakes because I can score some really good deals on lightweight calipers. :lol:

/a

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