Is 2018 the year proper race bikes with discs gain momentum?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Ghost234
Posts: 423
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:21 am

by Ghost234

For road bikes I feel the industry is moving entirely towards discs. But part of me questions its application to most people. I ride a lot of dirt roads and in the rain. So for me discs could offer much better braking in those conditions. But very few people I know ride in those kinds of conditions.

If it is sunny and you are only riding on paved roads, I just don't see the benefit of having discs - especially if you live somewhere flat.

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wheelbuilder
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

Ghost234 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:56 am
For road bikes I feel the industry is moving entirely towards discs. But part of me questions its application to most people. I ride a lot of dirt roads and in the rain. So for me discs could offer much better braking in those conditions. But very few people I know ride in those kinds of conditions.

If it is sunny and you are only riding on paved roads, I just don't see the benefit of having discs - especially if you live somewhere flat.

This. I live in a pretty hilly region of Northern California. I have never once considered disc for my riding. You simply don't use the brakes that much as an experienced road rider. When you do it's to scrub speed or come to a stop at an intersection. I don't ride in the rain, so I can't see a single application where disc would benefit me. Yet they are pushing them like crazy. I really don't get it to be honest with you.

by Weenie


robertbb
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

wheelbuilder wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:06 am
Ghost234 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:56 am
For road bikes I feel the industry is moving entirely towards discs. But part of me questions its application to most people. I ride a lot of dirt roads and in the rain. So for me discs could offer much better braking in those conditions. But very few people I know ride in those kinds of conditions.

If it is sunny and you are only riding on paved roads, I just don't see the benefit of having discs - especially if you live somewhere flat.

This. I live in a pretty hilly region of Northern California. I have never once considered disc for my riding. You simply don't use the brakes that much as an experienced road rider. When you do it's to scrub speed or come to a stop at an intersection. I don't ride in the rain, so I can't see a single application where disc would benefit me. Yet they are pushing them like crazy. I really don't get it to be honest with you.
Don't you? The bicycle industry is there, like any other, to sell us things. Wider rims... laces on shoes... the move to discs means selling new wheels, new frames, new "Hydraulically Optimised" groups... which will of course be tweaked, improved.. v2.0 will be better than v1.0, but v3.0 will be better still. Lighter, stiffer, more compliant... better braking modulation... 2% more aero... buy, buy, buy! There's a reason manufacturers are slowly not even making rim brake frames on certain lines anymore... they want to force you into buying a bike with disc; because for many it's not a decision that would be made on its own merit.
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

MoPho
Posts: 407
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:48 pm
Location: NorCal/SoCal

by MoPho

wheelbuilder wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:06 am
[


This. I live in a pretty hilly region of Northern California. I have never once considered disc for my riding. You simply don't use the brakes that much as an experienced road rider. When you do it's to scrub speed or come to a stop at an intersection. I don't ride in the rain, so I can't see a single application where disc would benefit me. Yet they are pushing them like crazy. I really don't get it to be honest with you.
I also live in a pretty hilly region of Northern California, am an experienced road rider, a very good descender and use my brakes a lot (because you need to use them to scrub speed and come to a stop at intersections). After more than a year on disc, I would not go back to rim brakes. Disc is better wet or dry and everyone I know on disc around here agrees with this sentiment. Maybe you just need to go faster... :noidea:




robertbb wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:44 am


Don't you? The bicycle industry is there, like any other, to sell us things. Wider rims... laces on shoes... the move to discs means selling new wheels, new frames, new "Hydraulically Optimised" groups... which will of course be tweaked, improved.. v2.0 will be better than v1.0, but v3.0 will be better still. Lighter, stiffer, more compliant... better braking modulation... 2% more aero... buy, buy, buy! There's a reason manufacturers are slowly not even making rim brake frames on certain lines anymore... they want to force you into buying a bike with disc; because for many it's not a decision that would be made on its own merit.

I recently started doing some part time work at a bike shop and pretty much everyone is asking about disc brakes to the point where it is being considered not to have any rim brake bikes on display anymore, no pushing them necessary. The brands we sell currently come both ways, so there is no pressure to push one over the other either

The good news is you are not forced to buy a new bike, and your rim brakes are "good enough" so you can save money by not sucumbing to the new bike lust. :thumbup:

.

robertbb
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

haha... oh I'm definitely succumbing to new bike lust.

I think in future my two campy groups will go on steel and ti frames, with threaded bb's and external routing and rim brakes. Lifetime bikes to appreciate and ride in fair weather.

And just have one latest whizzbang carbon disc electronic uber-bike to use and abuse and swap every few years.
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

jlok
Posts: 543
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Exactly MoPho. Disc brake and rim brake are not mutually exclusive. I have both and would take the appropriate bike for any ride. If in doubt, disc brake. With disc brake, going downhill with numerous bends is so enjoyable and easy. I got more safety margin with disc brake, means for the same margin I can go faster.

But still, light bikes are desireable. I will try to cut weight on my disc brake bike as well. It will never be rim brake light but I just can't give up the great brakes.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MoPho wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:22 am

I also live in a pretty hilly region of Northern California, am an experienced road rider, a very good descender and use my brakes a lot (because you need to use them to scrub speed and come to a stop at intersections). After more than a year on disc, I would not go back to rim brakes. Disc is better wet or dry and everyone I know on disc around here agrees with this sentiment. Maybe you just need to go faster... :noidea:
Heh let’s just ignore the brake technology debate for a moment. It floors me when people say they don’t need to brake that often here in NorCal/SFBA. Do they just ride the Bayshore trails? I already posted my residential street.... 16%, windy, bad road surface, lots of cars coming out of blind driveways. If I didn’t brake going down that I’d be flying within 400ft of horizontal distance traveled.

Do people not do the local 4000ft mountains? Have they not descended the recently reopened Mt. Um? Do they just coast down anything more than 4% grade and not pedal out of corners to build up speed?

Mind boggling.

jasjas
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 am

by jasjas

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:02 am
MoPho wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:22 am

I also live in a pretty hilly region of Northern California, am an experienced road rider, a very good descender and use my brakes a lot (because you need to use them to scrub speed and come to a stop at intersections). After more than a year on disc, I would not go back to rim brakes. Disc is better wet or dry and everyone I know on disc around here agrees with this sentiment. Maybe you just need to go faster... :noidea:
Heh let’s just ignore the brake technology debate for a moment. It floors me when people say they don’t need to brake that often here in NorCal/SFBA. Do they just ride the Bayshore trails? I already posted my residential street.... 16%, windy, bad road surface, lots of cars coming out of blind driveways. If I didn’t brake going down that I’d be flying within 400ft of horizontal distance traveled.

Do people not do the local 4000ft mountains? Have they not descended the recently reopened Mt. Um? Do they just coast down anything more than 4% grade and not pedal out of corners to build up speed?

Mind boggling.
Some people dont, sprint out of corner, tuck in, sit up, dab of brake, turn in, repeat.... its always more tire grip i want, rarely if ever, more brake.

Personally, when its wet and the back lanes are slippery, i m glad my rim brakes dont work so well

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wheelbuilder
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:02 am
MoPho wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:22 am

I also live in a pretty hilly region of Northern California, am an experienced road rider, a very good descender and use my brakes a lot (because you need to use them to scrub speed and come to a stop at intersections). After more than a year on disc, I would not go back to rim brakes. Disc is better wet or dry and everyone I know on disc around here agrees with this sentiment. Maybe you just need to go faster... :noidea:
Heh let’s just ignore the brake technology debate for a moment. It floors me when people say they don’t need to brake that often here in NorCal/SFBA. Do they just ride the Bayshore trails? I already posted my residential street.... 16%, windy, bad road surface, lots of cars coming out of blind driveways. If I didn’t brake going down that I’d be flying within 400ft of horizontal distance traveled.

Do people not do the local 4000ft mountains? Have they not descended the recently reopened Mt. Um? Do they just coast down anything more than 4% grade and not pedal out of corners to build up speed?

Mind boggling.
LOL. Dude........we have already discussed this late last year I think? Stop projecting what you feel to be the case on to me. I ride Sierra Rd, Old Calaveras, Palomaras/Calaveras, Marin Headlands, Pt Reyes Station, Four Corners, Nicasio, Old La Honda, Kings Mtn, Mt Hamilton, and Mt Diablo REGULARLY. I am not wanting for disc brakes. I fully understand that they perform admirably. I get it. I work on them every day! I occasionally sell them. I get it. I have disc on two other bikes. I think it was great of you to post that video of yourself. If I had to start every ride descending a hill like that I might consider them. The manner I ride the places I ride doesn't leave me wanting disc. I guess you will continue to imagine me as some kind slow guy riding an endurance bike with bar-rise. Think what you want. There are plenty of pics of my bike on here. "Mind Boggling"........whatever.

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wheelbuilder
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

@Tobinhatesyou.......the way you go on and on about disc, makes me wonder..... Have you ever owned a rim brake road bike? Did you even ride road in NorCal before the proliferation of road disc? If so, (and I have my doubts), how did you ever manage?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Before moving to discs, I never rode carbon clinchers. At the rate I descend and how hard I brake into corners, it's not worth the compound risk. It's not worth the extended wear. It's not worth switching to alloy wheels for the storms we're having now.

cunn1n9
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:24 am

by cunn1n9

TobinHatesYou wrote:Before moving to discs, I never rode carbon clinchers. At the rate I descend and how hard I brake into corners, it's not worth the compound risk. It's not worth the extended wear. It's not worth switching to alloy wheels for the storms we're having now.
I have a pair of 303’s (firecrest carbon clinchers) with over 30,000km on them. They have done an enormous amount of ascending, descending and city commuting where they are braked. The brake surface looks much like they did when new. The pads are sacrificial and I go through several sets a year but the brake surface has many many years left in them. My C24 alloys which I use much less often have worn because the brake pad is much harder and wears the alloy. I wish the alloy brake pads were softer so my alloy rims would last like my carbons.


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Shhh, don't imply that alloy rim brake pads are harder. Calnago will insist that they aren't.

Anyway I'm not talking about normal wear, but delamination and bubbling (which causes localized wear and pulsing.) I've seen plenty of that on various brand wheelsets...as well as catastrophic failure. Why would I bother with those drawbacks?

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

The only carbon clinchers I've ever owned are the Campy Boras. Going by my Strava stats....in 2016 I climbed 696,293' and in 2017 I climbed 740,105'. That's a total of 1.4million feet of vertical gain and loss. Some of that elevation gain is on my tandem. I don't keep track of my mileage by bike. But it's safe to say I have over a million feet of vertical gain on my Campy Bora 50 Ones. A week ago I bought a new pair of the Bora 35 Ultras. I took some pictures of these two wheels side by side. The 35 Ultras have 60 miles on them so they are practically brand new. You can see how the brake tracks wears on the Bora 50's with one million feet of vertical gain/loss. The brake track wear is minimal on the 50's. The wear is even and there are no hot spots or bubbles. I can't say if the other carbon clincher brands hold up as well as the Boras. But I can honestly say I have no fear about brake track wear on the Boras. By the way I'm still on the original brake pads and they are about half worn.

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XCProMD
Posts: 584
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

Disclaimer: I’m about to just kid here.

Another reason no to go discs:

https://www.mtb-news.de/news/2018/03/27 ... ssion=true

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by Weenie


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