Swap Colnago C60 for Sarto, am I mental?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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by scale29

Hi all,

I have a very lovely Colnago C60 56s in THNE (non more black) with Dura Di2 and Reynolds Aero 46 wheels, which fits me like a glove. I love the ride of this bike in every way, except I have a niggle. I'm a fairly heavy guy at 85kg and 6'2" I like to ride in the mountains when in France but also spend a lot of time riding 'lumpy' UK roads. My racing days are limited and I have another bike for this anyway, so this is my grand tourer.

I have a hankering for a custom Sarto disc bike though, as had a bit of a scare last summer on the Mont Du Chat (Portes crash) and I've been thinking of making the switch to disc's on the road. I'm fully committed to disc's on the cross bike and love them.

I'm thinking possible Dinamica Disc and can get a good deal one one. I just can help thinking am I doing the right thing as I can't afford to keep the Colnago if I go this route. Swapping C60 for Sarto, am I crazy?

by Weenie

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by XCProMD

I'm on my 7th Sarto and i've loved every single one. Sarto is bliss on wheels

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by lockxchg

Wait, are you Dan Martin or how does Portes crash relate to you? ;)

Anyway, you could also just get a decent set of alloy wheels. No braking concerns with those.

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by scale29

I've got a pair of Mavic Ksyrium Exalith too, they weren't on the bike when the brakes were cooking and snatching on the decent in July. I was using Porte as a reference in case anyone didn't know the decent in question.

Anyway, back to the original question........

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by Mr.Gib

85 kg and carbon clinchers in the mountains :smartass:. Your experience is pretty much what you should expect. I am 80 kg and on open roads in the mountains I wouldn't even think of carbon rims, tubular or clincher - alloy only. Discs of course is another way to solve the problem. If you would rather have a Sarto then a C60, buy a Sarto. But don't just do it for the disc brakes - you could get a disc C60 also. Although, if I could only have one Sarto (or a C60 for that matter), I would want it to be a rim brake version so there you go :noidea:
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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by beeatnik

Lose weight.

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by Boshk

why not a C60 Disc? as you said, your C60 rim fits perfectly.
Colnago C60

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by TonyM

My C60 fits me perfectly but I wanted to have a bike for rain/ showers and therefore I wanted to go for discs in terms of security.
Just swapping the C60 frame to a C60 disc would have also obliged me to change more or less everything so that was not an option.
And I figured out that I wanted to have a different bike than my C60 so that at least it looks different.
However I wanted to have a similar geometry or maybe more aggressive. Finally I ordered a Pinarello F10 disk. I was also considering other bikes (BMC SLR01 disc, Wilier Cento10 Air disc, Scott Foil disc).

If the geometry of the Sarto is good for you, then go for it!

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by scale29

Beatnik - Loose weight, yeah cheers for that, why didn't I think of that? Maybe I could try to get down to 60kgs, that would help the brakes ;-) even when I was full time racing I was only 80kg so that ain't gonna help too much.

Clearly not riding carbons in the mountains would have helped, but I was, I like my carbon wheels, I also like discs. I'm not a head in the past callipers until I die type of rider.

C60 disc ain't gonna happen, pricing is strong and I can't get a deal on it, my last one I bought on a deal as it was an in stock frame someone had ordered in and not collected. The Sarto I can get for a good price, but this might be why I'm thinking of it. Clearly I'd love to have both but as I already have an S-Works Tarmac which fills the calliper race bike void, that seems a little overkill.

The Sarto is full custom so I can have it a C60 geometry copy if I want.

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by TonyM

The C60 as the rim brake bike and the Sarto as the disc brake (with a grid geo for you) bike seems a good combo!
Is the S-Works Tarmac the new Tarmac? If not you may want to sell it as long as you can get a good price for it maybe.

BTW which Sarto bike are you looking at?

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by hannawald

If you have cash for that than go for it and enjoy the feeling of a having a new machine:) I have no direct experience with Sarto bikes, but they have pretty good reviews and Campagnolo chose them as a show bike when they launched discs.

if you raced then I guess you have enough experience to judge whether you want/need discs brakes..

riding a bike with shallow alu rims to be on a safe side seems weird to me when we have different technology. At least for normal riding.. i can understand that if it is just a climbing bike to make KOMs because of additional disc brake bike weight.

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by scale29

The S-Works Tarmac is the SL5 and is a loaner from the team I still race for occasionally in a few crits and small road races, so can't sell that.

I'm thinking the Dinamica Disc, although I'm at very early stages on the thought process.

Hannawald - I think you get it! I don't want to have to ride an alu rimmed bike to be safe, because I could ride a carbon rimmed bike with brakes that work all the time by switching, and i'm really not bothered about Strava KOM's, if I want to race, I'll stick an number on and go and race!

I just want a bike that rides smoothly and handles well (the C60 is superb in this respect) but with brakes that work predictably all the time, and possibly clearance for slightly larger tyres (28c). The Sarto, I think, can possibly be the bike and could take disc's and NETT out at the same weight or near as dammit as the C60.

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by liam7020

Weight-wise, highly unlikely. Back in June I took delivery of a Sarto Dinamica after a 4 month wait and whilst it's a nice enough paint job the frame is no lightweight. It was based on the same geometry as a Colnago 52s using a threaded BB which resulted in a frame weight of 1115g and fork 470g. So a disc version in your size would be considerably heavier.

Just a word on Sarto customer service - it's truly atrocious. I had ordered a colour coded head cap with the frame but it wasn't supplied. Spoke to the dealer who was told by Sarto that they would spray one for me and get it in the post... Well almost 5 months later and numerous emails to the dealer, the UK distributor and directly to Sarto still no head cap. Be aware.
Tarmac SL6 & Campag Record EPS https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 0&t=153968

"Sometimes you don't need a plan. You just need big balls." Tom Boonen

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by Calnago

Just wondering if maybe you tried some different wheels all would be resolved. I once had a set of Reynolds DVUL 46 clinchers with DT Swiss hubs laced up with DT aerolite spokes. Very light. And for me, very scary in certain conditions. Cresting a high mountain pass and quickly reaching around 45+ mph a gust of wind hit and I found myself in the most violent speed wobble ever. Whole bike was pretty much doing it’s own thing and I was looking for a spot to mitigate the damages which I was sure was imminent. I managed to stay upright but it was perhaps my scariest few moments ever on a bicycle. Chalked it up to just a bad meeting of the conditions. The following week I hit a rumble strip in a paceline and just thought I’d steer out of it, no big deal. Except wheels twisted a bit and next thing I knew I was flying over the jersey barrier. Truth was, the wheels just never felt very solid when pushed. Sold the wheels to someone much lighter than me and he has loved them, raced them, and they’re still going strong. Braking was so so. There was just no comparison to the Boras, which are stable and have super smooth braking with the red pads. DT Swiss hubs also do not have the best of geometries, especially for us bigger guys. A friend and I switched bikes for a bit this summer. He also had carbon rims with blue pads but the braking was like a skating rink. Night and day difference compared to the Boras with Campy reds. No “cooking and snatching” whatsoever. I simply have never even once thought disc brakes would improve my experience on the road.
As for the Sarto, I quite like the frames from what I know of them. Being a heavier rider, ultralightweight frames do nothing for me, except for one thing.... climbing. But you still have to descend, and that’s where the compromises start becoming very real. If you are intent on discs the Sarto with the new Campy disc setup would be very cool as I believe Sarto provides the unbranded test bikes for Campy development. You could therefore be pretty assured that everything will work together nicely.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie

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by scale29

Liam7020 - Thanks the sort of info I was after. The Sarto would have to be excellent to get me to part with the 'Nago!

I've never had a speed wobble with the Aero46 wheels, they just got very hot from trying to remove speed on a steep and tight decent. I know full well how to use my brakes, just on this day, nothing was going to help! The tar was melting on the road further down the hill, it was the day before the TDF tackled the route.

In reality the C60 is practically perfect for me, but just that seed of doubt.....

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