Favero Assioma PowerMeter Pedals

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usr
Posts: 889
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

Favero pedals run on plain old cartridge ball bearings. The inboard side is a very low profile (15 mm outer, 10 mm inner) so the balls are super tiny and therefore easily crushed. I guess needle bearings would be far more robust, but not available at all in that low profile (except for "open" bearings that would run directly on the spindle, you wouldn't want to to that on spindle that as expensive as those).

(not relevant to the proposed speedplay hack:) Favero does some mitigation by running two of those tiny bearings side by side to distribute the load, but don't expect them to last forever.

by Weenie


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ds240
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:43 am

by ds240

Thoughts on new Garmin Rally pedals in comparison? Obviously more expensive and continuing from latest vector 3, seem to have issues sorted.

It is just the pods that are bothering me on the faveros and these look a bit smarter.

Anyone have any experience with the new garmin?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

ds240 wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:33 pm
Thoughts on new Garmin Rally pedals in comparison? Obviously more expensive and continuing from latest vector 3, seem to have issues sorted.

It is just the pods that are bothering me on the faveros and these look a bit smarter.

Anyone have any experience with the new garmin?

I own both and they each have slight advantages/disadvantages. You can't go wrong with either at this point...all the Vector 3 issues have been sorted. Garmin also has incredible customer service should something go wrong. My issue with Favero Assiomas is the pedal body uses plastic threads for the outer cover. This was a problem with the Vector 3s, but replaced with metal threads with Rally. It is quite easy to overtorque the "spindle/body cap" on these since they are, for some reason, crucial to preventing axial play.

Mortecouille
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:16 pm
Location: France

by Mortecouille

Has anyone ever had an accidental unclip yet? With cleats from Favero.
Sorry for my english


tritiltheend
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:42 am

by tritiltheend

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:43 am
ds240 wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:33 pm
Thoughts on new Garmin Rally pedals in comparison? Obviously more expensive and continuing from latest vector 3, seem to have issues sorted.

It is just the pods that are bothering me on the faveros and these look a bit smarter.

Anyone have any experience with the new garmin?

I own both and they each have slight advantages/disadvantages. You can't go wrong with either at this point...all the Vector 3 issues have been sorted. Garmin also has incredible customer service should something go wrong. My issue with Favero Assiomas is the pedal body uses plastic threads for the outer cover. This was a problem with the Vector 3s, but replaced with metal threads with Rally. It is quite easy to overtorque the "spindle/body cap" on these since they are, for some reason, crucial to preventing axial play.
Well, there are a decent number of Assiomas out on the road, including my wife with probably 10K miles on hers, and I've never heard of the outer cover being a problem. Not saying it can't happen but this is the first I've ever heard of it. Seems you're saying it "could be a problem" rather than "is a problem"?

I'm not sure what inside information you have that the Garmin issues have been sorted out and I certainly hope you're right as everyone I know over the years with Garmin pedals has had problems, either reliability or inaccurate power. A friend of mine was having trouble this summer with a pair that had just been replaced under warranty, he did a 60 mile ride over fairly flat terrain at an average speed of 15 mph and his pedals said he averaged 260 watts, which is obviously way too high, he's of average size. So that's pretty recent. Doesn't prove that the problems are still happening widely of course but can't say I'm in any rush to find out for myself.

JWTS
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:44 pm

by JWTS

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:43 am
I own both and they each have slight advantages/disadvantages. You can't go wrong with either at this point...all the Vector 3 issues have been sorted. Garmin also has incredible customer service should something go wrong.
I'd love to believe this, but when pedals sent out to reviewers end up going sideways...
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a3 ... ly-review/ it gives me some pause.

I'll admit I have a strong bias against these, given the issues with the last one. I never used them, but 2 athletes I'm coaching just had disasterous experiences with them, and the replacement battery caps didn't help. And the CS experience wasn't all that great (neither has mine been with their head units). Again, I want to believe! It looks like a compelling package and love the portability. But functionally, the pedals don't really seem much different, so I still am really wondering if they've sorted out the issues.

Regarding the Favero's my wife is about 3 years and 15K miles and zero problems--power is within 1-3 watts, consistently, of a calibrated SRM and hasn't drifted over that time.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

JWTS wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:52 pm

I'd love to believe this, but when pedals sent out to reviewers end up going sideways...
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a3 ... ly-review/ it gives me some pause.

I'll admit I have a strong bias against these, given the issues with the last one. I never used them, but 2 athletes I'm coaching just had disasterous experiences with them, and the replacement battery caps didn't help. And the CS experience wasn't all that great (neither has mine been with their head units). Again, I want to believe! It looks like a compelling package and love the portability. But functionally, the pedals don't really seem much different, so I still am really wondering if they've sorted out the issues.

Regarding the Favero's my wife is about 3 years and 15K miles and zero problems--power is within 1-3 watts, consistently, of a calibrated SRM and hasn't drifted over that time.

*Shrug* I have 3 sets of Garmin Vector/Rally and they're all within a watt of each other and my Assioma Duo. The only thing the Rally/Vector do is report instantaneous cadence spikes up to around 140-150rpm in instances where there's no resistance on the drivetrain.

I also don't have any faith in the competency of Bicycling Magazine at all. I don't recall if GPLama has any outstanding issues with his set, but I'd trust him over DCRainmaker over anyone else.

I have had one-off zero-offset issues with both Assiomas and Vectors. The Assiomas randomly started reading 15% high on a very rainy ride, for example. Not a big deal. One-time experiences don't mean much in the grand scheme.

I use my Vector/Rally a lot more than my Assioma, especially now that I've converted them over to SPD-SL. That alone is worth it to me.

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

I started having very strange issue with my Favero Assioma Duo...

I put them on InDoor trainer bike to compare the Power Output between DiretoX and Duos...

Few rides everything just fine (Rouvy ,Zwift...) and 1 hr avg difference is about 5%...

But last two rides i have strange issue which i cant understund:

1. I used Zwift for both rides

2. Edge 530 is connected to Faveros, and External Speed Sensor (Garmin), and Garmin HR (trough ANT+), and to Trainer for Speed Sensor (like to compare mileage based on SpeedSensor from Trainer vs Zwift)..

3. Zwift is connected using FE-C to Trainer, and to Cadence Sensor (Garmin) and Garmin HR (trought ANT+ both)...


4. FIrst i had short ride for warming up on Zwift (like 15-20 minutes). Edge 530 was turned on, Connected everything but did not start recording yet (maybe even was turned off)

5. Before i begin second ride on Zwift (longer), i calibrate Faveros trough Edge 530 everything fine..

6. Starting Zwift ride and starting recording on Garmin same time.....

7. Ride is finished and saved...

Now the issue.. When i wanted to compare both files, i relized Faveros got disconnected (first ride got disconnected on 2 minutes mark, second time 8 minutes)..

Now very strange part: I did not noticed during ride that Faveros got disconnected from Edge 530, since 530 continued to show me the power.. But it was power data it got from DiretoX.. How is this possible at all, since DiretoX is not connected to 530 as Power Source at all.. Just as Speed sensor/Cadence (and cadence is overriden by external Garmin Cadence)

When i checked the Pedals i realized when i start them Right Pedal blink in ready mode, Left one completely Dead (like i Travel mode).. To wake up, i needed to connect to Power Charger (just like Travel mode).. After that it's fine...

Anyone else similar issue?

i'll do more tests this few days, and try to reproduce the issue now when i realized (first ride when that happened, battery on Favero was Low, so i thought that maybe that disconnecting happened because of low battery, and on second ride they were comletely charged)

When i had one long ride this ussue did not happened (or maybe coincidince)..

One thing that i switched in last rides is ANT+ stick.. From Sunto to Garmin, but i cant understund how that can make any prolbem like this.. The most misterius is how Garmin switch to DiretoX when got disconnect from Favero's since i did not conneced at all as Power source...

Also tommorow probably will try again , and if this happend again will switch Edge 530 with Fenix5 just to check if this problem will happen like that again....

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

If you’ve added your Direto’s ANT+ ID for speed/cadence, then you’ve also added every other profile for that ID.

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:41 am
If you’ve added your Direto’s ANT+ ID for speed/cadence, then you’ve also added every other profile for that ID.
When i check sensors in Edge 530, the ID for Direto have only icon showing that is beeing recognized as Speed/Cadence Sensor and not as Power Meter.. If i add as Power Meter im getting another icon clearly showing that is as Power Meter mode...

Except if there is some bug in Edge software that even it's connecting to device just in speed/cadence mode still use it as Power Meter.. I'll test that this few days...

BigBoyND
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

Just had a thought during my ride about pedal PMs: do they measure power on the recovery leg?

A PM on the crank, spider, rings, or hub measures net power (what makes it to the drivetrain). But most riders don't lift 100% of their leg weight on the recovery swing. So if you have some pressure on that leg, it would sap some power. On a pedal system will these numbers add, though?

Imagine your right leg is pushing 200W and the left is recovering with 5W of pressure on the pedal. Other PM systems will read 195W. But will a pedal based system read 205W?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

BigBoyND wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:16 am
Just had a thought during my ride about pedal PMs: do they measure power on the recovery leg?

A PM on the crank, spider, rings, or hub measures net power (what makes it to the drivetrain). But most riders don't lift 100% of their leg weight on the recovery swing. So if you have some pressure on that leg, it would sap some power. On a pedal system will these numbers add, though?

Imagine your right leg is pushing 200W and the left is recovering with 5W of pressure on the pedal. Other PM systems will read 195W. But will a pedal based system read 205W?

These dual-leg systems have multiple strain gauges in different orientations so the torque vector at any position is known. So if there's +x and -x and +y and -y, it's easy to figure out how much torque is actually helping propel you forward, and how much isn't.

The likes of SRM and Verve Infocrank will spout a lot of nonsense about how their PMs are the most advanced on the market, but the truth is the Garmin Vector 3 / Rally pedals are by far the technology leader.

Coolcat
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm

by Coolcat

What is the technological difference between Assioma and Rally?

usr
Posts: 889
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

Battery technology, obviously.

What's not entirely clear is wether Rally has additional strain gauges (on a more outboard position of the axle?) to enable PCO measurement or not. There exists a claim that Assioma have all the sensors they'd need for PCO and Favero just prefer allocating the CPU cycles they'd require for PCO calculation to accuracy (from a higher internal sample rate I guess), but I'm not entirely convinced that it's just a software difference (but not sure of the opposite either, I consider both very much possible). In addition to that it could be that Rally run on a slightly more modern variation of the Nrf52 chip, but that's rather unlikely because Vector 3 appeared at roughly the same time and Nordic isn't in the habit of making slightly more modern variations anyways (stuff remains unchanged unless there's a major new feature addition, like when they introduced ANT BLE dual)

by Weenie


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