Ultegra R8000 or Dura Ace R9100 cassette

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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TonyM
Posts: 2578
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

Hi,

What is the difference between the CS-R9100 Dura Ace and the CS-R8000 Ultegra cassettes besides the lower weight of the Dura Ace?

(as the price difference between the CS-R8000 Ultegra and the CS-R9100 Dura Ace cassette is quite significant, I am considering using the R8000 cassettes instead of the R9100 on my Dura Ace gruppo).

by Weenie


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kdawg
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:10 pm

by kdawg

There appear to be a few differences - DA has the largest 5 cogs made from titanium and held together with a carbon reinforced plastic spider.

Ultegra cogs are all nickel plated steel. The outer spider is alloy but the next one might be carbon - I’ve seen both in descriptions.

So. The DA is over twice the price, about 60g lighter, has carbon spiders and titanium cogs.

It is lighter but the main disadvantage is that the titanium cogs will wear much faster.

As a wear part unless you’ve got loads of money it makes sense to me to use the Ultegra cassette.
I'm left handed, if that matters.

Delorre
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm

by Delorre

kdawg wrote:There appear to be a few differences - DA has the largest 5 cogs made from titanium and held together with a carbon reinforced plastic spider.

Ultegra cogs are all nickel plated steel. The outer spider is alloy but the next one might be carbon - I’ve seen both in descriptions.

So. The DA is over twice the price, about 60g lighter, has carbon spiders and titanium cogs.

It is lighter but the main disadvantage is that the titanium cogs will wear much faster.

As a wear part unless you’ve got loads of money it makes sense to me to use the Ultegra cassette.



This! Plus : DA cassettes tend to creak (or break, in worst case). Don't know if this still applies to the newest DA cassettes.

DamonRinard
in the industry
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Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

About a decade ago I made a $/gram spreadsheet and the Dura-Ace titanium cassette eventually became the most economical way to save weight on my cyclo-cross bike. So I installed it.

I expected the ti cogs to wear but to my surprise, it lasted through 5 wet, muddy cross seasons (including training on and off road) and still hadn't worn out. I no longer fear worn Dura-Ace cogs, and they do save significant weight.

"If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up." -Ferris Bueller
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

itchyjoe
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:56 pm

by itchyjoe

Just installed the CS-R8000 on my Di2 9070 build and it's excellent--the savings and better durability is worth it. The chain I'm using is a KMC X11SL DLC...cheapest I found was at Amazon, $78-91 depending on color.

https://www.amazon.com/KMC-X11SL-Speed- ... B00HLA6OES

RussellS
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am

by RussellS

kdawg wrote:It is lighter but the main disadvantage is that the titanium cogs will wear much faster.


Nonsense. I've had a few cassettes with titanium cogs over the years. They lasted just fine. The titanium cogs are the large cogs on a cassette. I rarely ride in the large cogs. Big chainring and large (titanium) cogs is equal to small chainring and small (steel) cogs. Learn to shift your gears and you will spend very little time in the titanium cogs. Even in hilly terrain, you spend a small percentage of the time in the small chainring and big cogs. The uphill where you use the big cogs (titanium) is a pretty small percentage.

TheKaiser
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

Keeping a fresh chain on there will likely play a bigger role in extending the life of the cassette than the material of the cogs themselves (the exception being aluminum cassettes, because them seem to suck no matter what). When running a super high end (expensive) cassette, if maximizing the lifespan is your goal, it can make sense to do that whole routine where you also purchase 3-4 chains at the same time, and keep rotating between them so that you stay in the chain wear sweetspot for longer.

kode54
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

TheKaiser wrote:Keeping a fresh chain on there will likely play a bigger role in extending the life of the cassette than the material of the cogs themselves (the exception being aluminum cassettes, because them seem to suck no matter what). When running a super high end (expensive) cassette, if maximizing the lifespan is your goal, it can make sense to do that whole routine where you also purchase 3-4 chains at the same time, and keep rotating between them so that you stay in the chain wear sweetspot for longer.


agreed. i have had no issues with worn cassettes. keeping the chain clean and replace more often is what's extended my cassettes.
- AX Lightness Vial EVO D + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9150 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 6.7 CK hubs
- Guru Praemio R Titanium + DA9150 + Enve 3.4 CK hubs

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kdawg
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Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:10 pm

by kdawg

RussellS wrote:
kdawg wrote:It is lighter but the main disadvantage is that the titanium cogs will wear much faster.


Nonsense. I've had a few cassettes with titanium cogs over the years. They lasted just fine. The titanium cogs are the large cogs on a cassette. I rarely ride in the large cogs. Big chainring and large (titanium) cogs is equal to small chainring and small (steel) cogs. Learn to shift your gears and you will spend very little time in the titanium cogs. Even in hilly terrain, you spend a small percentage of the time in the small chainring and big cogs. The uphill where you use the big cogs (titanium) is a pretty small percentage.


I mean that’s true - but we’re comparing the same cogs (ie only the bigger end of the cassette as you said) and while it’s true that you’ll spend more time in the middle of the cassette (ie steel cogs) it’s also true that the titanium cogs will wear faster than they would if they were the steel ones. They might last long enough that you’re satisfied - but I only said that they’ll wear faster than the cheaper cassette.

Anyway, I just answered the question and gave my opinion as to what I would do. I don’t have a single DA item - 100% Ultegra on best bike, Ultegra/105 mix on the next, Ultegra 6600 on my SS, and I’m pretty sure there might be a Tiagra cassette on one pair of wheels...
I'm left handed, if that matters.

charlieboy52000
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:43 am

by charlieboy52000

TonyM wrote:Hi,

What is the difference between the CS-R9100 Dura Ace and the CS-R8000 Ultegra cassettes besides the lower weight of the Dura Ace?

(as the price difference between the CS-R8000 Ultegra and the CS-R9100 Dura Ace cassette is quite significant, I am considering using the R8000 cassettes instead of the R9100 on my Dura Ace gruppo).


If you are going to train on this bike with training wheels use the Ultegra.
If you are going to race with these wheels only, use the DA for maximum weight savings.
If you use the DA for training and every day ride, it will last less than the ultegra under the same conditions because of the Ti cogs.
Honestly 60gm are not going to make you faster my friend. Although if low weight bragging rights is what you seek by all means get the DA.
I used the DA on the racing wheels. Ultegra training wheels. After a while I just used ultegra all around. For me the weight savings of 60gm was a piss on a race. Also the price difference is significant.
Bottom line ultegra cogs will last longer than DA cogs under the same conditions. Also if you are a heavier rider you will eat the DA ones faster.


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charlieboy52000
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:43 am

by charlieboy52000

Keeping the chain clean is paramount. Once a week cleaning for 200-300 miles per week is enough. Use the park tool or any other cleaning contraption. I use lighter fluid for cleaning or very strong simply green.
Get a chain wear meter. Very useful Cheap piece of metal that will tell you when the chain is at 75% wear.
Get the pro link lube. It will last you about a week(200-300 miles) after you clean the chain at the beginning of the week.
If you want to make it last even longer, if you get a dirty ride or a wet one. Clean the chain with a rag and apply the pro link before te next ride. Don't apply it right before the ride because it will stay sticky and you will grab more dirt. Do it right after your ride.
These are my tricks and my cassettes last about 1 year.


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themidge
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Location: Freeedooom!

by themidge

Only one year!? With all that love and care? Mind you 300 miles a week will get through anything pretty quickly.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )
Pre-War Hetchins Brilliant (weight: it's a touring bike)

boots2000
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:28 pm

by boots2000

Main disadvantage to the 9100 cassette is noise- I have found that 6800/8000 cassettes run much quieter.

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 1005
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

i'm on dura ace and i always choose the ultegra cassette. difference is mostly grams, but at least on the 9000 vs 6800 iteration the ultegra cassette seems more reliable and straight forward. design is less complicated and it shows in the performance. the metal in the dura ace wears out faster too.

agree that the ultegra design is less prone to creaking. its a no brainer as far as i'm concerned.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

by Weenie


MalibuCANE
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:18 am

by MalibuCANE

charlieboy52000 wrote:
TonyM wrote:Hi,

What is the difference between the CS-R9100 Dura Ace and the CS-R8000 Ultegra cassettes besides the lower weight of the Dura Ace?

(as the price difference between the CS-R8000 Ultegra and the CS-R9100 Dura Ace cassette is quite significant, I am considering using the R8000 cassettes instead of the R9100 on my Dura Ace gruppo).


If you are going to train on this bike with training wheels use the Ultegra.
If you are going to race with these wheels only, use the DA for maximum weight savings.
If you use the DA for training and every day ride, it will last less than the ultegra under the same conditions because of the Ti cogs.
Honestly 60gm are not going to make you faster my friend. Although if low weight bragging rights is what you seek by all means get the DA.
I used the DA on the racing wheels. Ultegra training wheels. After a while I just used ultegra all around. For me the weight savings of 60gm was a piss on a race. Also the price difference is significant.
Bottom line ultegra cogs will last longer than DA cogs under the same conditions. Also if you are a heavier rider you will eat the DA ones faster.


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I just had a DA 9000 cassette break on the titanium cogs but it was a few years old so I can’t really complain. I just got a new bike with 9150 and it’s awesome. I might go Ultegra on my gravel bike though.


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