Tubeless road tires don't work for everyone - discuss

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I still get the popping/pinging. AFAIK the popping comes from the bead moving past the bead lock, not pressing up against the rim wall.

by Weenie


bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

If the tape is too wide it can interference withe the bed locking into place. An an example is the hed rim with 20mm internal width. 21mm stans tape is not quite wide enough once you have applied it properly as removing a tubeless tyre can cause the tape to pick up at the edges which is bad news. Try 25mm wide stans and the tape covers the sides but prevents a firm bead lick so the irc or schwalbe tyre falls away from the rim with zero pressure or can be pushed off with light pressure to the bead.
Use 25mm var tape though which is thinner and it stretches and does not cover the sides as much allowing the tyre to lock firmly in place.

Nearly all the issues people have are user error or picking the wrong bits. You only find this out the hard way though. Don't dispair unlike one local shop who said to me they tried a schwalbe x one on an American classic rim and there was no bead lock and then declared tubeless does not work during the club run while i was riding a 29er with tubeless tyres at 25 psi. I did point that out. I need to give them a tutorial.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

Is there a reason not to use tubed tires with butyl or latex tubes that support removable core with orange seal? http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _4155.html

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

mpulsiv wrote:Is there a reason not to use tubed tires with butyl or latex tubes that support removable core with orange seal? http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _4155.html
It works...to an extent. Slime Tubes exist. People inject sealant into tubulars with latex inner tubes.

It's my understanding that latex tubes are easy to seal than butyl, but you should be careful to keep them from fully deflating or the walls can stick together. Butyl tubes, unlike butyl linings in tubeless tires, stretch a bit around the puncture/hole and are difficult to properly seal. There's also the fact that whatever caused the puncture may still be lodged in the tire and may continue to damage the tube.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

TobinHatesYou wrote:
mpulsiv wrote:Is there a reason not to use tubed tires with butyl or latex tubes that support removable core with orange seal? http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _4155.html
It works...to an extent. Slime Tubes exist. People inject sealant into tubulars with latex inner tubes.

It's my understanding that latex tubes are easy to seal than butyl, but you should be careful to keep them from fully deflating or the walls can stick together. Butyl tubes, unlike butyl linings in tubeless tires, stretch a bit around the puncture/hole and are difficult to properly seal. There's also the fact that whatever caused the puncture may still be lodged in the tire and may continue to damage the tube.
Bummer, that would be an extra effort to run in a garage to pump up latex tubes every 3-4 days to prevent walls from sticking. I'm talking about n+1 bike that isn't used every day.
Now, does this only apply to slime seal? Orange seal is ammonia-free and latex-based. Will latex to latex exhibit sticking?

On the topic of tubeless. Wasn't Huthinson Fusion 5 the easiest to install and well balanced (e.g. durability, grip, puncture resistance) but mileage is suffering?
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Hutchinson s on some rims are too loose though.
Tubeless tires compatibility can only be answered if the rim is known. Most tyres fit to most rim rims though
What varies is how much tape you have to put on to get them to inflate easily.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

:back2topic:

Has anyone actually use butyl or latex tubes that support removable core with Orange Seal before jumping on tubeless wagon? http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _4155.html

This looks like a simple solution. If not, share your thoughts.
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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

mpulsiv wrote::back2topic:

Has anyone actually use butyl or latex tubes that support removable core with Orange Seal before jumping on tubeless wagon? http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _4155.html

This looks like a simple solution. If not, share your thoughts.
I haven't had the opportunity to try Orange Seal in tubes but I've tried Joes and Stans in road tubes and slime tubes on mountain bikes. In my experience these don't really work. This is because the liquid latex needs air to start to solidify and what happens is that the liquid latex will end up between the tube and the tire and never get the opportunity to solidify. I imagine that Orange Seal will have a much better result than either Stans or Joes, but I can't guarantee any success.

In my opinion it's worth adding sealant to tubes as a winter or endurance riding as a hopeful measure only.

shimmeD
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by shimmeD

Hang on a sec, Lewn! You said it doesn't work, and yet you recommend using it. Maybe I got the wrong end of your stick.

On the other hand, I've used sealant in tubulars and had some success. Point is I can't see any difference between the tube inside the tubular from the tube & tyre situation of a clincher set-up. I haven't tried the later and maybe won't ever as adding sealant probably takes away the ability to patch the tube.
Less is more.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

I could care less about slime sealant and its self-sealing tube https://shop.slime.com/products/self-se ... ycle-tubes
Isn't that an outdated formula since the 90's?

Stan's sealant is not impressive.

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dcorn
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by dcorn

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:27 pm
As I’ve been saying all along, the Hutchinson-manufactured tubeless tires are all super-easy to mount by hand. This includes the Mavic Yksion Pro UST and Zipp Tangente Speed RT. It’s why I’m puzzled that bm0p700f had trouble mounting his sample.
I have the 32c Hutchinson Sectors as well. They fit like a glove on the Axis 4.0 20mm wide rims that came on my Crux. Never had a problem losing air or burping.

Now I'm mounting them to Stans Grail wheels (19mm internal I think) and they are suuuuuper tight. It took two levers to force the tire on the rim and the tire bead is way down in the rim channel when mounted. To the point where I think the circumference difference between the Stans Rim and the tire is going to make the tire want to lose air and deflate. I've had the same issue with the Stans and my Clement MSO 36mm tires, but those tires have again worked perfectly on the stock Axis wheels. Neither one of these are new tires either. They have been ridden hundreds of miles on the Axis wheels and worked perfectly.

I blame Specialized for running out of stock of Axis wheels and forcing me to get aftermarket rims. I spent almost $600 on a 2nd set of wheels instead of $250. :x

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I dont have trouble mounting it if I use a lever. I have only tried the mavic tyre on two rims the mavic open pro and the Kinlin XR22T. On these rims the mavic tyres are a nice tight but secure fit. I like that. inflation is easy. I could not care less if a tubeless tyre can be mounted easily by hand, in fact if you can I have always found the tyre unseats to easily with no air so that is something I want to avoid.

This obbession with easy to mount tubeless tyres is misplaced. What is important is a secure fit in fact a fit so secure you can ride the tyre flat and it wont unseat.

kulivontot
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by kulivontot

Anyone who complains about mounting on tubeless rims hasn't used kool stop bead jack. It's in pretty much every pacenti thread ever. Been around for years.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

Stan's advertise 5 grams per rim? Real weight was 13 grams per rim.

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by Weenie


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by dim

On my commute yesterday, another puncture on the front IRC tyre .... pppfzzzt .... a bit of orange sealant leaked and voila .... puncture sorted .... no stoppage time and did not even have to add any extra air
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