Damaged surface of Campagnolo Ultra Torque PressFit Cups

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Alexandrumarian
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

No primer, wasn't available and had no patience to hunt and wait even more. I just cleaned the surfaces really well with 96 alcohol. I think the activator mostly shortens curing time when larger gaps are present rather than improve the bond (which we don't want to be super strong anyway). I only did it because I am very heavy and have a deep hate for any sort of creak or noise...
In your case given that the Colnago Threadfit is well made, Loctite should not be needed. Dry or that paste.
However on a second install if the inserts possibly have gotten wider or ovalized from the extraction ordeal, Loctite will be needed. Hard to tell if replacing cups will solve the rubbing. It might very well happen again. If I was to redo things, I would also take out the threadfit, make sure it is not ovalized or damaged, screws in nicely, has paste and good torque...

Before going through all this trouble, I'd first clean and regrease bearings and ride some more paying close attention. If bearings seem fine, it spins well, no noises, then probably safe to ride some more, then recheck after another 1000Km or so.

3Pio
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Alexandrumarian wrote:No primer, wasn't available and had no patience to hunt and wait even more. I just cleaned the surfaces really well with 96 alcohol. I think the activator mostly shortens curing time when larger gaps are present rather than improve the bond (which we don't want to be super strong anyway). I only did it because I am very heavy and have a deep hate for any sort of creak or noise...
In your case given that the Colnago Threadfit is well made, Loctite should not be needed. Dry or that paste.
However on a second install if the inserts possibly have gotten wider or ovalized from the extraction ordeal, Loctite will be needed. Hard to tell if replacing cups will solve the rubbing. It might very well happen again. If I was to redo things, I would also take out the threadfit, make sure it is not ovalized or damaged, screws in nicely, has paste and good torque...

Before going through all this trouble, I'd first clean and regrease bearings and ride some more paying close attention. If bearings seem fine, it spins well, no noises, then probably safe to ride some more, then recheck after another 1000Km or so.


Yes, just i plan to do. Bearings are fine, no noise, spining smoothly. Noise (very tinny noise, and rubbing) only happening when i reinstall everything back, scratching a little bit on the damaged surface..

Just in case i'll order new cups new plus that paste, and beeing ready if become worst then it is now..

Every 1000 Km i do detailed cleaning, so i'll check again then which will be probably in month (if the weather is not bad, if it's bad probably more..)

Thanks for all help..

by Weenie


markyboy
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:22 pm
Location: Bristol uk

by markyboy

I had a creak coming from my c60 bb and replaced the cups and used morgan aqua blue creaking went away,when i first put cups in i put them in dry lesson learnt.
COLNAGO C60 SUPER RECORD EPS
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3Pio
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Ok, i just ordered new cups so i'll replace in near future..

Now another problem.. In LBS dont have the proper tools, so there is some improvisation..

Can u recommend me what tool do i need to remove old cups?

And i guess i need Campagnolo UT-BB140 pressfit tool for installation? Is there any other suggestion u can recommend?

So please recommend me tools that i need for this operation?

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

To press for cheap you can simply get the rings made by Cyclus Tools and improvise the press from a big bolt.

For removal many people use this and a hammer. I see it also comes with a pair of rings but it is not mentioning Campy compatibility so I don't know if they can be used for an improvised press.

Earlier I said if it was my beloved bike I'd rather try to unscrew the insert and try to extract the cup from there, but reading more I see the removal tool is cup type, not wrench, so it will likely not engage with the Campy cup in the way. From other discussions, the Colnago tool used to be included with the frame at the beginning, later not.

So you will have to hammer on the frame. Yuck. There might be more expensive tools that work by pressing instead of hammering but I am not aware of any specifically for UT. I would love to hear a suggestion too for my own toolbox.

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

A cheaper expander for hammering.

A cool looking press tool that might work, description unclear, same for their website.

3Pio
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Alexandrumarian wrote:A cheaper expander for hammering.

A cool looking press tool that might work, description unclear, same for their website.



Im just googled the same tools :) and also unclear how this extractor work...

BTW, with my frame i got the Campagnolo tool (i insisted on that to buy the frame), so definetely i'll first try to remove the whole thing instead of hammering the frame.. But want to be ready (and also to update my toolbox), so very inerested if there is any other suggestiongs...


Thanks Alexandrumarian....


p.s. Also this can help instead of big bolt: https://www.bike-components.de/de/Cyclu ... it-p33835/ together with: https://www.bike-components.de/de/Cyclu ... lo-p33827/ (as u suggested).

Wondering is it worth to go with this tool: https://www.bike-components.de/de/Cyclu ... In-p33826/

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

I have the more expensive version, the other isn't listed by bike24. I would have tried the cheap way first but I was in a time crisis and couldn't go to any big hardware store. Pressing with them went OK.

As for removing the insert. I wonder if the pressure from the cups could compress the threads and make unscrewing difficult or dangerous. So better not to force it too much. But anyway, if the Colnago tool is a shallow cup type, it will probably not engage.

3Pio
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Alexandrumarian wrote:I have the more expensive version, the other isn't listed by bike24. I would have tried the cheap way first but I was in a time crisis and couldn't go to any big hardware store. Pressing with them went OK.

As for removing the insert. I wonder if the pressure from the cups could compress the threads and make unscrewing difficult or dangerous. So better not to force it too much. But anyway, if the Colnago tool is a shallow cup type, it will probably not engage.


What do u think for this tool for removing the cups?

http://www.endurobearings.com/products/ ... l-brt-003/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7ZwdLRKPd8

https://www.mountainbikesdirect.com.au/ ... 92-bb-tool

And not clear if this price is in AUS Dollars or US Dollars?

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

Thanks for finding this. Looks nice to me (hopefully the bolt is strong enough for a well bonded cup). I found it as low as 150USD (but consider the taxes if you order from across the ocean). However first thing would be to check with the manufacturer if it is truly compatible with Campy (even if they say "all BB86 systems")

3Pio
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Alexandrumarian wrote:Thanks for finding this. Looks nice to me (hopefully the bolt is strong enough for a well bonded cup). I found it as low as 150USD (but consider the taxes if you order from across the ocean). However first thing would be to check with the manufacturer if it is truly compatible with Campy (even if they say "all BB86 systems")


Yeah, that should be the first thing we should find...

And i miss Calnago in this thread.. Im sure he'll have some idea about this...

3Pio
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

I found interesting video of DIY solution for removing BB86 Cups.

Look very simple, and also look that it can be made cheap and ho hammering at all...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkIUpAbbJ18

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Calnago
Posts: 6364
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Removing Ultratorque cups from a C60...

Use the RT-1 tool from Park.
Remove the seals from the cups.
Insert the tool until the prongs pop out the backside, allowing them to catch the lip of the seal seats. They should be strong enough to support the impact from a good strike to pop them out. Also, if you are using EPS with the sleeve this is really the only support you will be able to access. If a retaining compound has been used a good blow is better than a gradual "pull" or "extraction" in my opinion as the bond needs to be broken initially. This is even more important if you are dealing directly with a bond against a carbon shell (not the case with the C60), as a gradual extraction against a cup that has been bonded with retaining compound can possible shear away the carbon fibers as it pulls to reach the bond breaking force. A good solid impact is more likely to break that bond quickly and cleanly in my opinion.

The RT-1 Tool, and an ultratorqe cup with the seal removed...
Image

Inserting the tool through the cup. Assume the cup is installed in the frame but it is easier to see like this...
Image

Image

Image


If you have a solid sleeve through the BB shell, versus the more recent two halves, and you are not using EPS with the sleeve, then pulling the tool all the way through then butting it up against the outer edge of the cups will provide even better support, versus the seal lips on the inside of the cups.... like this...
Image

Once the tool is butted squarely and securely against the cup, a good solid blow with a hammer on the end of the RT-1 should knock it out cleanly. I prefer this to trying to remove the Threadfit cups with the Ultratorque cups pressed in (then removing the cups somehow afterwards) simply because I believe trying to unscrew the Threadfit cups with the Ultratorque cups pressed in with an interference fit has to exert a significant amount of force on the treads of the BB shell, so why bother. The above method is the easiest and safest in my opinion.

In the last picture above, I believe I "adjusted" the max diameter of the prongs on the RT-1 to fit the outer edge of the Campy Ultratorque cups pretty exactly.

Hope that helps you understand what you're trying to do with the tool etc.
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wedgie
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:41 pm

by wedgie

Great explanation and photos Calnago. Much appreciated.

by Weenie


kode54
Posts: 1227
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

LePouletTrapu wrote:
Alexandrumarian wrote:Photos show the non drive side? On the left of the wear area there is something that looks like a hole. Is that a hole for the pin or just an artefact. Asking because the cup with the safety pin is supposed to be on the drive side.

Based on the internal cables that is the drive side it's just the angle of the photo which makes you think it's the non drive side.

To me it looks like the press fit cups are very slightly miss aligned, saw something similar on a mates bike once after he had trouble getting his cups installed and used brute force and the wrong tool to press them in. I would replace the cups to be sure.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk



this is what i think as well. misaligned cups...pressed in at a slightly askew. which looks like its worn on one side.
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