Damaged surface of Campagnolo Ultra Torque PressFit Cups

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
3Pio
Posts: 868
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Today im cleaning my Colnago C60 and beside everything else i removed crankset to clean, lube etc...

I realized that surface of BB Campagnolo Ultra Torque Press Fit Cups is damaged in one part where it have contact with berings.

Just to mention that three months ago, i feel not so smooth rolling of crankset driveside, but thought that bearings need to be replaced. When i check bearings on the crank they are almost perfectly smooth so no need for replacament.

So why this happened? Inproper installation of cups maybe?

When i install cranset i use white lithium grease on the bearing/cups surface.

And should i replace the BB cups with new? (no creaking, no nothing until now).

With this cups i have about 9500 km riden.

ImageImageImage
Last edited by 3Pio on Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


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Miller
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by Miller

If this was my bike, I'd shrug and re-install the crank. When you take a bike apart you always find things that are worn and dirty.

No action required unless you notice a symptom while riding, IMO.

Alexandrumarian
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Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

Do you feel roughness or any depression with your finger tip? Fingers usually are sensitive to this sort of thing. If you don't feel anything it is probably fine, anodizing is super thin...

3Pio
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by 3Pio

Alexandrumarian wrote:Do you feel roughness or any depression with your finger tip? Fingers usually are sensitive to this sort of thing. If you don't feel anything it is probably fine, anodizing is super thin...


There is some roughness when i turn the crank slowly (with sound of scratching), nothing excessive, but i'll check from time to time..

Also think if it's good idea to sandpaper the part of transition from anodizing to scratched...

And asked more in term to dont damage the bearings because of this, and more important that im making an online order in this moment for other parts, so wondering should i order BB Cups, if i need to replace this soon...

Miller wrote:If this was my bike, I'd shrug and re-install the crank. When you take a bike apart you always find things that are worn and dirty.

No action required unless you notice a symptom while riding, IMO.


I done exactly like that :) i reinstall everything back and ready for ride..But just wanted to know should i replace BB Cups to avoid more damage, or just to ride until more roughness happen...

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corky
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by corky

I would replace the cups, they are not very expensive, or else if like me, you'll obsess.....

AJS914
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by AJS914

I wouldn't replace the cups. Those are not bearing surfaces. The bearings just sit there. Do you grease those surfaces inside the cup.

I would try and figure out why you have some movement in there. I've only had BSA ultra torque cups and have never seen wear like that inside the cup. Do you have the wavy washer and the clip installed?

3Pio
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

AJS914 wrote:I wouldn't replace the cups. Those are not bearing surfaces. The bearings just sit there. Do you grease those surfaces inside the cup.

I would try and figure out why you have some movement in there. I've only had BSA ultra torque cups and have never seen wear like that inside the cup. Do you have the wavy washer and the clip installed?


Until now i was putting a lot of white lithium grease.. Today i reinstall just applying small coat of grease on the bearings..

And yes, im using the wavy washer (on non drive side). If there is some movement there, i guess it will some sound while that happening, but my drivetrain is creaking free, and silent... Maybe that happened while installing/reinstalling the crankset?

One of the reason thinking should i reinstall or not, is if i reinstall worrying if i switch from silent and creaking free drivetrain, to press fit noise creaking drivetrain :) (dont have proper tools to install/reinstall cups, i'll have to go to LBS, and not sure how well they'll do it (not sure that they have all proper tools, but ull check). The cups i have was installed from where i bought the frame in Italy)

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

And yes, im using the wavy washer (on non drive side).


Do you also have the clip on the drive side installed?

Image

3Pio
Posts: 868
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

AJS914 wrote:
And yes, im using the wavy washer (on non drive side).


Do you also have the clip on the drive side installed?

Image[/quote

Yes :) I become an expert in installing/removing this :) secure pin

Bridgeman
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:04 am
Location: USA
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by Bridgeman

That looks like fretting, and there are at least 2 things that can contribute to this.
1 Improper tolerance between bearing and cup.
2 Non-coplanarity between bottom bracket face surfaces.

Alexandrumarian
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Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

Photos show the non drive side? On the left of the wear area there is something that looks like a hole. Is that a hole for the pin or just an artefact. Asking because the cup with the safety pin is supposed to be on the drive side.

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LePouletTrapu
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by LePouletTrapu

Alexandrumarian wrote:Photos show the non drive side? On the left of the wear area there is something that looks like a hole. Is that a hole for the pin or just an artefact. Asking because the cup with the safety pin is supposed to be on the drive side.

Based on the internal cables that is the drive side it's just the angle of the photo which makes you think it's the non drive side.

To me it looks like the press fit cups are very slightly miss aligned, saw something similar on a mates bike once after he had trouble getting his cups installed and used brute force and the wrong tool to press them in. I would replace the cups to be sure.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

3Pio
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

LePouletTrapu wrote:
Alexandrumarian wrote:Photos show the non drive side? On the left of the wear area there is something that looks like a hole. Is that a hole for the pin or just an artefact. Asking because the cup with the safety pin is supposed to be on the drive side.

Based on the internal cables that is the drive side it's just the angle of the photo which makes you think it's the non drive side.

To me it looks like the press fit cups are very slightly miss aligned, saw something similar on a mates bike once after he had trouble getting his cups installed and used brute force and the wrong tool to press them in. I would replace the cups to be sure.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Yes it's drive side.. I'll order a new cups, and continue riding like this so will replace in the near future..

While im at adding things in basket online.. It's recommended to use Loctite 609, but seem i cant find it online.. What i can use instead? I saw some suggestion instead of Loc 609 to use Morgan Blue Aquaproof Montagepaste, so is this ok? The loctite they have is 648 which is High Strength and 609 is medium strength...

Is this ok for assemblying pressfit cups in my frame? (C60 have alloy insert in the frame, so cups are not pressing directly to carbon). I just hope that those alloy inserts are not damaged as well :(
Last edited by 3Pio on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

OK, I was confused by the tightening arrow which seems to go opposite of crank rotation.

I recently pressed Campy cups and all i could find at my usual sources was 648 and I bought it as backup. Started pressing and it was going in perfect, hard but without scary noises. At about 1/3 I decided to put some Loctite as well just to make super sure it won't creak and all finished fine. Looking at the pdf of the two types I kind of feel in the end it won't be much of a difference when removing.

Assuming the cups and inserts match perfectly I think you can get away without Loctite but a bit of aluminium friendly paste or grease.

As for removal, personally I would screw out the inserts and try to extract cups outside the bike frame, rather than hammering on the frame. That procedure makes my skin crawl. On my bike (no inserts, bare carbon) if I ever have to replace cups will first dremel the bulk of the metal out then gently pry off the remaining sleeve.

by Weenie


3Pio
Posts: 868
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Alexandrumarian wrote:OK, I was confused by the tightening arrow which seems to go opposite of crank rotation.

I recently pressed Campy cups and all i could find at my usual sources was 648 and I bought it as backup. Started pressing and it was going in perfect, hard but without scary noises. At about 1/3 I decided to put some Loctite as well just to make super sure it won't creak and all finished fine. Looking at the pdf of the two types I kind of feel in the end it won't be much of a difference when removing.

Assuming the cups and inserts match perfectly I think you can get away without Loctite but a bit of aluminium friendly paste or grease.

As for removal, personally I would screw out the inserts and try to extract cups outside the bike frame, rather than hammering on the frame. That procedure makes my skin crawl. On my bike (no inserts, bare carbon) if I ever have to replace cups will first dremel the bulk of the metal out then gently pry off the remaining sleeve.



U used just 648 and not primer or something? And i guess those MorganBlue Aquaproof paste will also work since i have alloy to alloy surface? Or better to go 648?

Another thing is im not sure how the cups are installed and what they used during the installation. I insisted then to be installed in front of me, but when i come to pick up the frame they allready done that :(

So i had a plain to catch next day, and did not have other choice then to accept it like that..

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