Can a bike be overly stiff ?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 1006
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

AJS914 wrote:You can not always tune it out with tires and pressure. Some bikes are just harsh riding.


but then you are limiting your tire /wheel choices.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

ichobi
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

Some bikes are just simply harsh. I used to think my Canyon Aeroad CF SLX is plush for an aero bike. I rode it for 2 years until I tries Storck Dunario. I rode my Canyon with Knight Composite wheels with 25c tires at 80 psi and it still wasnt as comfortable as the Storck with 23c tires at 100 psi with worse tires than the canyon. The Storck is just wonderful at absorbing the vibration while retains good acceleration at all point.

Canyon comes with integrated bar which I would argue exacerbated the vibration. My definition of nice riding bike has changed a lot and i kid myself thinking the Canyon was rather comfortable. May be it was compared to other aero bike but long long way from what traditional bikes can do. So yes a bike can be too stiff for some. It was meant to use for racing after all where comfort is not much of a concern. Race bike is not always nicest riding despite all the tweaks you put in them.


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by Weenie


AJS914
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by AJS914

fromtrektocolnago wrote:
AJS914 wrote:You can not always tune it out with tires and pressure. Some bikes are just harsh riding.


but then you are limiting your tire /wheel choices.



Not sure what you mean by that or how that is responding to what I wrote. You also don't have a lot of choice in tire size on racing bikes. 25mm is basically the max on my C59. I've read that 25mm is about the max for the F8 as well (the frame in question here).

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1776
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

So it's confirmed then, Pinarello Dogma F8s are just obviously terrible for long days in the saddle...such as century length rides with 197 of your close friends.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

TobinHatesYou wrote:So it's confirmed then, Pinarello Dogma F8s are just obviously terrible for long days in the saddle...such as century length rides with 197 of your close friends.


Tubs Bro, makes it heaps more plush....
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diegogarcia
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

mrgray wrote:my observation is that for whatever reason these discussions which implicate a persons bike fit/fitness can get a little nasty. remember for instance ryanh's colnago c59 thread. also whilst it may well be that fit is an issue (who amongst us is never not fettling that) clearly the OP is happy with his for the moment. at the point we are harrassing the OP re: his fitness or suggesting he should not post in his own thread, maybe we've gone too far? also let's face it, unless we can see someone on a bike in person, or perhaps photos of same, suggestions re: fit are pretty speculative.

we all like to keep our lives as simple as possible i imagine. if the OP doesn't want to throw up all variables for consideration right now then who are we to say he should.

and finally i think the OP deserves some respect as a person who is putting the miles in (i certainly think he is very strong) and is prepared to utilise a bike forum to discuss the possibility that the very expensive bike frame he bought in a less than 100% positive light. i personally enjoy user reviews like this and i think as a bike forum we would do well to encourage them.


Nailed it ! OK - here is how I should have headed this thread. 'WOW, the Domga F8 is a stiff bike !'.

diegogarcia
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

TobinHatesYou wrote:
diegogarcia wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:230mi / 12600ft over 15hr is not that strong. For me that's a weighted average of 150W.


Fair shout. Give Big Dave at SKY a call. Do remember there are no mountains in the UK.

I am at 278 watts for 20 mins and nearing 46 years old. It'll do for me. As I said, the F8 is a stiff frame.


The amount of elevation in your rides is great. The problem is the moving time. Your estimated FTP is under 3w/kg. On what scale does that make you strong? This is less about trying to get personal and more about trying to hit you with a bit of reality. You would keep up with a typical B ride here on flat ground, but then be dropped immediately once the grade hits +2%.


Yes, my w/kg is low as not a small chap, no issues with that, but I generally ride solo and ride in the hilliest part of the UK. I have never claimed to be Carlos Sastre :smartass: :mrgreen: :thumbup:

diegogarcia
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

TobinHatesYou wrote:So it's confirmed then, Pinarello Dogma F8s are just obviously terrible for long days in the saddle...such as century length rides with 197 of your close friends.


Not the case, I did 97 miler solo the week before last and was fun, stiff frame though, but a great bike overall. Just got this injury to my left hand to contend with on a stiff frame.

Image

diegogarcia
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

AJS914 wrote:
fromtrektocolnago wrote:
AJS914 wrote:You can not always tune it out with tires and pressure. Some bikes are just harsh riding.


but then you are limiting your tire /wheel choices.



Not sure what you mean by that or how that is responding to what I wrote. You also don't have a lot of choice in tire size on racing bikes. 25mm is basically the max on my C59. I've read that 25mm is about the max for the F8 as well (the frame in question here).


Also worth noting that verniers matter as tyre widths change all the time. in 2010 -2012 a 23mm conti was tiny, but now a 23 is 25, 25 is 28 and so on. Corsa G for me 23mm, measuring at 25mm which fit well in the frame and arc beautifully in the wheel.

dkoor
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:10 am

by dkoor

Some really good advices here... I will just add, if it wasn't mentioned already, that you consider running lower PSI on front tire than rear tire, if for anything, then for the fact that rear tire bear more weight.


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sawyer
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

ichobi wrote:Some bikes are just simply harsh. I used to think my Canyon Aeroad CF SLX is plush for an aero bike. I rode it for 2 years until I tries Storck Dunario. I rode my Canyon with Knight Composite wheels with 25c tires at 80 psi and it still wasnt as comfortable as the Storck with 23c tires at 100 psi with worse tires than the canyon. The Storck is just wonderful at absorbing the vibration while retains good acceleration at all point.

Canyon comes with integrated bar which I would argue exacerbated the vibration. My definition of nice riding bike has changed a lot and i kid myself thinking the Canyon was rather comfortable. May be it was compared to other aero bike but long long way from what traditional bikes can do. So yes a bike can be too stiff for some. It was meant to use for racing after all where comfort is not much of a concern. Race bike is not always nicest riding despite all the tweaks you put in them.


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It might be the integrated bar that's the culprit ... though I've heard and read good things about comfort with that fitted

I have an Aeroad without the integrated bar and find the comfort good (Boras, 25mm tubs) ... better at absorbing imperfections than any traditional frame I've ridden tbh, though as with any large tubed carbon frame you do get quite a bit of noise from bumps that you wouldn't get in a traditional small diameter round tubed carbon frame, or a steel or Ti frame for that matter
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

wingguy
Posts: 4194
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

mrgray wrote:also whilst it may well be that fit is an issue (who amongst us is never not fettling that) clearly the OP is happy with his for the moment.

And yet it is most probably the cause of the symptoms he is complaining about (just like it was the last time he hought he had a bike that was 'too stiff') whether he wants to hear it or not.

at the point we are harrassing the OP re: his fitness or suggesting he should not post in his own thread, maybe we've gone too far?

Yeah, not sure why anyone started bringing speed into it. I have no issues with how far or fast the OP rides. But when the OP says 3 or 4 times that he's going to stop replying and then is still sniping at people what's wrong with suggesting he stop? After all, it's his own idea :noidea:

diegogarcia
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

wingguy wrote:
mrgray wrote:also whilst it may well be that fit is an issue (who amongst us is never not fettling that) clearly the OP is happy with his for the moment.

And yet it is most probably the cause of the symptoms he is complaining about (just like it was the last time he hought he had a bike that was 'too stiff') whether he wants to hear it or not.

at the point we are harrassing the OP re: his fitness or suggesting he should not post in his own thread, maybe we've gone too far?

Yeah, not sure why anyone started bringing speed into it. I have no issues with how far or fast the OP rides. But when the OP says 3 or 4 times that he's going to stop replying and then is still sniping at people what's wrong with suggesting he stop? After all, it's his own idea :noidea:


Anyway peace and love to all. Sorry for the late reply, been out smashing out a solid 32 miler, 1,800 feet not too bad but bloody windy out. I must ride less and sort my position :beerchug: :up: :thumbup:

wingguy
Posts: 4194
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

diegogarcia wrote:Anyway peace and love to all. Sorry for the late reply, been out smashing out a solid 32 miler, 1,800 feet not too bad but bloody windy out. I must ride less and sort my position :beerchug: :up: :thumbup:

It's confusing when you combine a purportedly friendly and positive post with a sarcastic misrepresentation of the advice people have tried to offer in good faith.

by Weenie


jih
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

Why not just flip your stem before your next club ride? If nothing else, it's a data point to rule out and only takes a few minutes to do.

Or get a kalloy uno in a shorter length on eBay and try it. They're light and around £20. Not a lot to lose.

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