Campagnolo 11 speed using 34/50x11/36! Yes it can be done with PRE-2015 Athena LC Big Gears on Campagnolo 11 speed

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colnagoaddict
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:53 pm

by colnagoaddict

Valbrona wrote:Tried 36 sprocket with original 10 speed Record ... poor shifting on biggest sprockets and too much cross chaining.

I much prefer triples.
Yeah the 10 speed rigs I have I use a triple. Or 32 2x max. Ird made a 34 10 speed but sold out a long time ago. If you try 10 speed shimano the spacing is too far off and shifts like crap. 11speed is close enough to match using a shitmano campatible cassette with a campy drivetrain.

NoTe: you have to use the right version of 11 speed campy there are 3 generations of Campy 11 speed and none play nice with a different generation....Frieeky Italian italian engineering at its finest! Lo :D l

by Weenie


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graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

Just remember this true story guys ...

I had to refuse an EPS warranty today, because someone decided it was a good idea to transplant a medium cage onto his EPS RD and run it with a 32 bottom.

He'd read it would be "OK" on a forum ...

It all shifted fine, chain wrap was OK, so big to big worked ... so, you may ask, why don't Campag offer it as an option? Everybody wants it ... easy win, no?

I'll tell you. Campagnolo tested it. It didn't even get as far as the teams ... the R and D riders at the factory found that the chain can over-run on the smallest sprocket shift and jam between the frame and the casette ... it doesn't happen often but even in an impeccably set up system, it happens - which is why Campagnolo recommend not to do it.

It's straight geometry. If you correctly set the H screw so that on small ring to big sprocket the RD doesn't foul the biggest sprocket, you end up with too much free chain between the top jockey wheel and the smallest sprockets ... and the built-in overshift that produces a crisp, fast shift in a correctly set-up system means that with too much free chain, some of the precision is lost and an over-run can be produced. Shifting in the middle of the cassette can also be a bit flakey.

Back to my refused warranty - chain over-run and jam was exactly what happened to the customer in question, except that in his case, in a violent back-pedal in a panic to try and unjam his chain (he wasn't sure why his pedals had suddenly stopped dead), he so thouroughly demolished the rear mech that bits of it ended up in his rear wheel and took that out, along with the hanger and the dropout too ...

So yes, you can try and second-guess the guys that spend a lot of time (and a lot of your money, BTW - what do you think pays for the R and D?) designing stuff that works pretty much faultlessly if you put it together properly ... but on your own head be it, if it all goes horribly wrong.

For the customer's sake, I'm glad he wasn't in a bunch sprint when it happened - because quite apart from any injury to himself, he'd have quite a lot of pretty p*ssed-off riders after his hide as well if he'd jammed his chain solid shifting up at 60 ot 70 kmh in that scenario.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

graeme_f_k
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 611
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 12:21 pm
Location: UK
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by graeme_f_k

colnagoaddict wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:36 am
Valbrona wrote:Tried 36 sprocket with original 10 speed Record ... poor shifting on biggest sprockets and too much cross chaining.

I much prefer triples.
Yeah the 10 speed rigs I have I use a triple. Or 32 2x max. Ird made a 34 10 speed but sold out a long time ago. If you try 10 speed shimano the spacing is too far off and shifts like crap. 11speed is close enough to match using a shitmano campatible cassette with a campy drivetrain.

NoTe: you have to use the right version of 11 speed campy there are 3 generations of Campy 11 speed and none play nice with a different generation....Frieeky Italian italian engineering at its finest! Lo :D l
Not strictly true but follow these rules, set it up properly on a frame that is in-spec and it'll be a happy set up.
Caveat - pay attention to maximum / min sprocket sizes ...

SR & RE EPS - works with all 11s cranksets, best with cranksets post 2012
ATH & CH EPS - as above
SR, RE, CH pre 2015 need pre 2015 RDs, levers, FDs all matched, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chain
SR, RE, CH Post 2015 needs post 2015 RDs, levers, FDs all matched, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
ATH UltraShift will work with ATH UltraShift RDs (specifically), CH, RE, SR pre 2015, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
ATH PowerShift will work with Ath PowerShift RDs (specifically), then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
Match Potenza to Potenza, no year differences except pre-2018 LH shifter body needs changing to match HO cranks if used, then works with all cassettes, chains
Match Centaur 11 to Centaur 11, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

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Miller
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Good clear guidance, thanks.

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

You'd better have a really solid low tolerance upper pulley in that derailleur and no play in the derailleur linkage. Otherwise the chain will do crazy things in smaller cogs.

/a

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

graeme_f_k wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:59 pm
Follow these rules, set it up properly on a frame that is in-spec and it'll be a happy set up.
Caveat - pay attention to maximum / min sprocket sizes ...

SR & RE EPS - works with all 11s cranksets, best with cranksets post 2012
ATH & CH EPS - as above
SR, RE, CH pre 2015 need pre 2015 RDs, levers, FDs all matched, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chain
SR, RE, CH Post 2015 needs post 2015 RDs, levers, FDs all matched, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
ATH UltraShift will work with ATH UltraShift RDs (specifically), CH, RE, SR pre 2015, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
ATH PowerShift will work with Ath PowerShift RDs (specifically), then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
Match Potenza to Potenza, no year differences except pre-2018 LH shifter body needs changing to match HO cranks if used, then works with all cassettes, chains
Match Centaur 11 to Centaur 11, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
In regards to the bold font, sprocket sizes. The medium cage HO rear derailleurs say "29-32 only" on the cage. Why is this? Could a 12 - 27 or even a 12 - 25 be run? (perhaps with a different chain length)?

Thanks in advance!

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Although it's probably not as big a problem to use it with small cassettes, the same problem could arise on the other end of the cassette.

If running big cassettes with undersized derailleurs cause the small cogs to lose precision, doing the opposite: running a small cassette with an oversized derailleur should theoretically cause a larger gap to the bigger cogs and lose precision shifting there.

/a

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cveks
Posts: 351
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:15 pm
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by cveks

Campagnolo Potenza Mid cage rear derailleur which handles 11-32T cassettes, with Shimano Ultegra 11-34T cassette. Anyone tried this?

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cveks
Posts: 351
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:15 pm
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by cveks

graeme_f_k wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:59 pm
colnagoaddict wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:36 am
Valbrona wrote:Tried 36 sprocket with original 10 speed Record ... poor shifting on biggest sprockets and too much cross chaining.

I much prefer triples.
Yeah the 10 speed rigs I have I use a triple. Or 32 2x max. Ird made a 34 10 speed but sold out a long time ago. If you try 10 speed shimano the spacing is too far off and shifts like crap. 11speed is close enough to match using a shitmano campatible cassette with a campy drivetrain.

NoTe: you have to use the right version of 11 speed campy there are 3 generations of Campy 11 speed and none play nice with a different generation....Frieeky Italian italian engineering at its finest! Lo :D l
Not strictly true but follow these rules, set it up properly on a frame that is in-spec and it'll be a happy set up.
Caveat - pay attention to maximum / min sprocket sizes ...

SR & RE EPS - works with all 11s cranksets, best with cranksets post 2012
ATH & CH EPS - as above
SR, RE, CH pre 2015 need pre 2015 RDs, levers, FDs all matched, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chain
SR, RE, CH Post 2015 needs post 2015 RDs, levers, FDs all matched, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
ATH UltraShift will work with ATH UltraShift RDs (specifically), CH, RE, SR pre 2015, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
ATH PowerShift will work with Ath PowerShift RDs (specifically), then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
Match Potenza to Potenza, no year differences except pre-2018 LH shifter body needs changing to match HO cranks if used, then works with all cassettes, chains
Match Centaur 11 to Centaur 11, then works with all 11s cranksets, cassettes, chains
I have problem with my Potenza RD. It looks that spring inside it lost its strength so when I am on 34/32T it has bad sound like it does not strech as it should be. Works on all other cogs and smaller cassetes without any problem though. Even 50/32T works great. What can be issue . Cable strech or spring problem? How can I fix it?

Catagory6
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 am

by Catagory6

bumping an old thread after a google search lead me here

how do you get enough space between the upper guide wheel, and the 36-tooth sprocket?
i just tried this, and with the B-screw (?) backed all the way out, the upper wheel contacts the cogs ever so slightly, while in the stand.

EBH
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:14 pm

by EBH

Nice bump! :D
Sorry for hijacking, but my question is quite fitting with this thread.
After reading through this thread, is it saft to assume that my 2014 Athena and my 2015 Chorus, both with medium cage, can operate smoothly with an 11-32 Potenza cassette?

Catagory6
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 am

by Catagory6

EBH wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:20 am
Nice bump! :D
Sorry for hijacking, but my question is quite fitting with this thread.
After reading through this thread, is it saft to assume that my 2014 Athena and my 2015 Chorus, both with medium cage, can operate smoothly with an 11-32 Potenza cassette?
i run an 11-32 with a 34/50 crankset and a short cage
measured the chain for the 34/11 combo
i just make sure i never go into the 50/32 combo
so if you're using medium cage, i would say you are good to go

EBH
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:14 pm

by EBH

Catagory6 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:50 pm
EBH wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:20 am
Nice bump! :D
Sorry for hijacking, but my question is quite fitting with this thread.
After reading through this thread, is it saft to assume that my 2014 Athena and my 2015 Chorus, both with medium cage, can operate smoothly with an 11-32 Potenza cassette?
i run an 11-32 with a 34/50 crankset and a short cage
measured the chain for the 34/11 combo
i just make sure i never go into the 50/32 combo
so if you're using medium cage, i would say you are good to go
Thanks. Sounds promising enough to give it a try at least... :)

smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva


Catagory6 wrote:bumping an old thread after a google search lead me here

how do you get enough space between the upper guide wheel, and the 36-tooth sprocket?
i just tried this, and with the B-screw (?) backed all the way out, the upper wheel contacts the cogs ever so slightly, while in the stand.
You can get derailleur hanger extender on ebay for cheap.
Image

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Catagory6
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 am

by Catagory6

smokva wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:09 am
Catagory6 wrote:bumping an old thread after a google search lead me here

how do you get enough space between the upper guide wheel, and the 36-tooth sprocket?
i just tried this, and with the B-screw (?) backed all the way out, the upper wheel contacts the cogs ever so slightly, while in the stand.
You can get derailleur hanger extender on ebay for cheap.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
yeah, i have one of those. but the OP stated specifically WITHOUT a road link.
that's what i'm interested in

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