SRAM Force 22 vs Red 22 shifters
Moderator: robbosmans
Reviving this thread as I have all 3 Shifters here and maybe want to switch for the best option possible. Quality and "ease" of shifting being the most important.
I'm using Rival22 on my bike, but I bought some Force22 shifters this winter, and I also have the opportunity to swap the Red22 shifters from a "donkey bike" that doesn't see much use.
I can clearly feel a difference in the shifting. Rival needs more "finger" strenght (feels like it needs more pull ??) than the Red22. Can't speak for the Forece22 as it's not installed on a bike now.
If Force22 and Red22 are the same, I'll install the Force as they're in mint condition. The Red22 ones have zillion km's on them...
Any knowledge here about the different internal components, or features (zero loss, etc...) from the three shifter models ?
Louis
I'm using Rival22 on my bike, but I bought some Force22 shifters this winter, and I also have the opportunity to swap the Red22 shifters from a "donkey bike" that doesn't see much use.
I can clearly feel a difference in the shifting. Rival needs more "finger" strenght (feels like it needs more pull ??) than the Red22. Can't speak for the Forece22 as it's not installed on a bike now.
If Force22 and Red22 are the same, I'll install the Force as they're in mint condition. The Red22 ones have zillion km's on them...
Any knowledge here about the different internal components, or features (zero loss, etc...) from the three shifter models ?
Louis
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I am still to understand where the difference is between Red 22 and Force 22 (I haven't googled it TBH). Maybe some Ti to save more weight on the Red. Impossible to tell the difference from the hoods between Red and Force.
The second generation 10-speed Force (those similar to 10-speed Red) already had Zero loss. The first gen Force levers (those with a silver shift lever and "Force" printed on the brake lever) didn't have Zero loss.
For Rival I wouldn't know.
The second generation 10-speed Force (those similar to 10-speed Red) already had Zero loss. The first gen Force levers (those with a silver shift lever and "Force" printed on the brake lever) didn't have Zero loss.
For Rival I wouldn't know.
My understanding is that the mechanicals are all the same across the groupsets for SRAM 22 options. Red has a carbon body, brake and shift levers. Force has a composite body, carbon brake & alloy shift lever*. Rival has a composite body, with alloy brake & shift levers. Red also features titanium hardware, which for the shifters includes the band clamp and bolt to mount the shifter to the bar.
So all in all, Red will be lighter, but Force and Rival will have the same mechanical function.
* - the shift lever on Force used to be magnesium on 10spd, but I'm pretty sure it's alloy now. I rode the group for years, but honestly can't remember 100%. The group was nice enough that after my last bike with 9150, I've gone back to SRAM 22 for my newest build. Lighter, less expensive and no loss in shift performance I rate, as I never did shift my front ring under full load anyway.
So all in all, Red will be lighter, but Force and Rival will have the same mechanical function.
* - the shift lever on Force used to be magnesium on 10spd, but I'm pretty sure it's alloy now. I rode the group for years, but honestly can't remember 100%. The group was nice enough that after my last bike with 9150, I've gone back to SRAM 22 for my newest build. Lighter, less expensive and no loss in shift performance I rate, as I never did shift my front ring under full load anyway.
There's a trim function on the Red22 left lever, wich you don't have on Rival.
So internals aren't the same.
Old 10S had "zero loss" on Force and Red, but not Rival, Rival was harder to shift. That's why I was asking if it's the same for SRam22 internals.
Louis
So internals aren't the same.
Old 10S had "zero loss" on Force and Red, but not Rival, Rival was harder to shift. That's why I was asking if it's the same for SRam22 internals.
Louis
My Red22 doesn't have the trim function (it's on the bike now, so I'm not going from memory). The previous Force22 set-up didn't either. I didn't think any of the '22' shifters had that after Yaw FD's were introduced.
I believe Zero Loss was rolled out to every group for the front shifting during the 10spd days, while only Red had it for the rear derailleur. Since going to 22, every group has it on both. It's mostly noticeable for the shift from the 11 cog, but it was on my Force set and SRAM's website says Rival has it too - https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/sb-riv-b1
I believe Zero Loss was rolled out to every group for the front shifting during the 10spd days, while only Red had it for the rear derailleur. Since going to 22, every group has it on both. It's mostly noticeable for the shift from the 11 cog, but it was on my Force set and SRAM's website says Rival has it too - https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/sb-riv-b1
It's not Red/Force22, but I have both Force and Red 10 speed. They are 100% identical except the following differences:
- the 10g weight difference between Red and Force is somehow in the plastic body, the shifting parts weigh the same despite the fact that...
- Red has a carbon shift paddle, Force has alloy
- the Red shift paddle is mounted to an alloy carrier, the Force part is made of steel
- Red and Force have a different 'clicky bit', i.e. the ratchet and shift paddle are the same, but the parts that allow them to interact are different and not interchangeable. You can, with careful disassembly, transplant this part from one shifter to another. I know this because I have done it (broke various parts and cobbled together a working shifter from a Red and a Force).
^ edit, I'm talking about rear shifters of this generation:
- the 10g weight difference between Red and Force is somehow in the plastic body, the shifting parts weigh the same despite the fact that...
- Red has a carbon shift paddle, Force has alloy
- the Red shift paddle is mounted to an alloy carrier, the Force part is made of steel
- Red and Force have a different 'clicky bit', i.e. the ratchet and shift paddle are the same, but the parts that allow them to interact are different and not interchangeable. You can, with careful disassembly, transplant this part from one shifter to another. I know this because I have done it (broke various parts and cobbled together a working shifter from a Red and a Force).
^ edit, I'm talking about rear shifters of this generation:
Last edited by themidge on Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I need to double check that, I was pretty sure that shift paddles were carbon on Force levers (except the very first Force 10 speed obviously).
Thanks for the information (and correction) .js wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:27 pmMy Red22 doesn't have the trim function (it's on the bike now, so I'm not going from memory). The previous Force22 set-up didn't either. I didn't think any of the '22' shifters had that after Yaw FD's were introduced.
I believe Zero Loss was rolled out to every group for the front shifting during the 10spd days, while only Red had it for the rear derailleur. Since going to 22, every group has it on both. It's mostly noticeable for the shift from the 11 cog, but it was on my Force set and SRAM's website says Rival has it too - https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/sb-riv-b1
My right Rival shifter certainly doesn't feel like the old Red Zero Loss..., especially when the cable has lots of tension (for larger cogs on a 11-28T)
Louis
No trim on front Sram 22 btw.
Indeed, I never noticed that (my Force 10-speed shift paddle are a bit worn where they make contact with the brake levers, and there is metal indeed under quite a thick coat of something). Thanks for the info
My Red 22 and Force 22 don't have trim function.
And actually in my case, Force shift better. It is both more consistent and require less effort.
However, it is clear that the difference are due to the cable housing that is different between two bikes.
My bike withRed 22 use link-style weight weenies housing. Force 22 one use Jagwire Pro housing. The Force 22 therefore perform better because the heavier shift cable housing happen to work better than the link style with full liner.
And actually in my case, Force shift better. It is both more consistent and require less effort.
However, it is clear that the difference are due to the cable housing that is different between two bikes.
My bike withRed 22 use link-style weight weenies housing. Force 22 one use Jagwire Pro housing. The Force 22 therefore perform better because the heavier shift cable housing happen to work better than the link style with full liner.
Out of curiosity, which kind of link housing do you use ?
I wanted to use iLink on the Force 22 levers that replace the old first-gen Red 10-speed shifters ofn my Bianchi, but iLink connectors don't fit the Force 22 levers, and the vertical exit makes it too tight a bend along the bars for iLink. So I switched to Jagwire Elite Sealed (that I use on bikes that I ride in all kind of weather all year round - the commuter even staying outside everyday without shelter) that perform flawlessy but are way heavier than ilink.
On trim, 22 yaw front deraileurs with 10-speed levers are a treat, as the FD is designed to handle all 22 speeds without trim, and the lever trim provides additional adjustement.
I wanted to use iLink on the Force 22 levers that replace the old first-gen Red 10-speed shifters ofn my Bianchi, but iLink connectors don't fit the Force 22 levers, and the vertical exit makes it too tight a bend along the bars for iLink. So I switched to Jagwire Elite Sealed (that I use on bikes that I ride in all kind of weather all year round - the commuter even staying outside everyday without shelter) that perform flawlessy but are way heavier than ilink.
On trim, 22 yaw front deraileurs with 10-speed levers are a treat, as the FD is designed to handle all 22 speeds without trim, and the lever trim provides additional adjustement.
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Pretty sure the differences in weights due to different construction materials is rundown here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=146941&start=15#p1653533
But basically RED22 uses all carbon fiber and titanium hardware, while Force uses alloy, composite and steel. But the design is the same, just the materials different.
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Alligator iLink. The housing move around when I shift from the smallest gear to the next bigger one. This never happen on stiff non link housing.
On my braking system, I also use Jagwire Elite Link and it move a little bit when I pull the brake lever too. But braking system is not as critical to dial as shifting system so I think the link housing works fine there.