Have Colnago done away with the inner metal sleeve in the C60 BB?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
3Pio
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

wilwil wrote:I think I used a Park headset removal tool. You have to ensure it engages on the inside edge not the edge thats in contact with the BB. It doesn't matter if that edge gets slightly damaged as it is not in contact with the frame. There are probably better tools for this job though.


By inside edge u mean about edge where bb86 cups and threadlock alloy inserts are in contact and to be carefull to dont engage on part where threadlock sleeves are in contacti with the frame i guess?

And can u point me specific tool? Is it this one: https://www.parktool.com/product/head-c ... ry=Headset

"Also removes the PressFit 30 (PF30) bottom bracket units. The PressFit 30 inside diameter is the same as headset cups, and is pressed in the same manner."

Asking because to me dont look like compatible with BB86 cups...

by Weenie


nestornnk
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:44 pm
Contact:

by nestornnk

Apart from a couple of color codes only for Japan there is NO difference in specs.All new frames produced now they do NOT have a full metal sleeve .

wilwil
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

My LBS now has a gold and carbon C60 without the full sleeve. The areas inside that can be seen in the BB have been tidied up and painted with some dark grey matte paint.

wilwil
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

nestornnk wrote:Apart from a couple of color codes only for Japan there is NO difference in specs.All new frames produced now they do NOT have a full metal sleeve .


Have they given you reason for getting rid of the metal sleeve?

wilwil
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

3Pio wrote:
wilwil wrote:I think I used a Park headset removal tool. You have to ensure it engages on the inside edge not the edge thats in contact with the BB. It doesn't matter if that edge gets slightly damaged as it is not in contact with the frame. There are probably better tools for this job though.


By inside edge u mean about edge where bb86 cups and threadlock alloy inserts are in contact and to be carefull to dont engage on part where threadlock sleeves are in contacti with the frame i guess?

And can u point me specific tool? Is it this one: https://www.parktool.com/product/head-c ... ry=Headset

"Also removes the PressFit 30 (PF30) bottom bracket units. The PressFit 30 inside diameter is the same as headset cups, and is pressed in the same manner."

Asking because to me dont look like compatible with BB86 cups...

You need the Park BBT90.3 or much better is the Enduro BRT 003 which needs no hammer but is expensive.

3Pio
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

wilwil wrote:
3Pio wrote:
wilwil wrote:I think I used a Park headset removal tool. You have to ensure it engages on the inside edge not the edge thats in contact with the BB. It doesn't matter if that edge gets slightly damaged as it is not in contact with the frame. There are probably better tools for this job though.


By inside edge u mean about edge where bb86 cups and threadlock alloy inserts are in contact and to be carefull to dont engage on part where threadlock sleeves are in contacti with the frame i guess?

And can u point me specific tool? Is it this one: https://www.parktool.com/product/head-c ... ry=Headset

"Also removes the PressFit 30 (PF30) bottom bracket units. The PressFit 30 inside diameter is the same as headset cups, and is pressed in the same manner."

Asking because to me dont look like compatible with BB86 cups...

You need the Park BBT90.3 or much better is the Enduro BRT 003 which needs no hammer but is expensive.



I thought the same until i start reading and find out that BB90.3 is for removing BB86 bearings and not cups.

Probably the right tool will be Park RT-1 (95% sure about this), or Park RT-2 (5% for this), or Unior 1681.1

I will appreciate if someone confirm me about this, and if u have opinion whicn one is better Unior or Park will like love to find ur opinions.

Enduro BRT003 is great tool but too expensive for using once ot twice in two-three years, so even i wanted to order i decide that is not worth.

There is anouther similar tool, but also not worth for using once... It's: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TriPeak-Integra ... c42PFU2y_A

For pressing the cups probably i'll use this one: https://www.bike-components.de/de/Cyclu ... l-o300001/

Together with this: https://www.bike-components.de/de/Cyclu ... lo-p33827/

ironman1
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:51 pm

by ironman1

Just took mine apart last weekend. Park rt-2 is the answer . I have both rt-1 and rt-2. The rt-1 is just shy of spreading enough to catch the outside of bearing race.

3Pio
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

ironman1 wrote:Just took mine apart last weekend. Park rt-2 is the answer . I have both rt-1 and rt-2. The rt-1 is just shy of spreading enough to catch the outside of bearing race.


Hmm. I just got the answer from the Park Tool:

"The Campagnolo system is a bit different. Here use the RT-1, race remover. You often must push out the seals to engage the tool. "

Again, we are talking about removing the Campagnolo PressFit Cups, not something else? (Like maybe Shimano or Sram or Bearings..)?

ironman1
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:51 pm

by ironman1

Not Campagnolo but Colnago. The tread fit system has takes a 41mm outer race bearing no matter what crank set your running. the rt-1 does not spread out enough to catch the outer race of bearing, rt-2 does. With the rt-1 you would be contacting the balls and not outer race.

nickstea
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:15 pm

by nickstea

Hi @wilwil - I just got my new colnago (2017 C60 PLWH) and it appears there is no inner metal sleeve in the bottom bracket. This concerns me for the legitimacy of the bike. I'm located in the US and almost all frames I've seen have the inner metal sleeve. Do you guys know anything more about this supposed change. Ive even seen some reported 2018s WITH the metal sleeve. Should I be concerned about the legitimacy of the frame?
wilwil wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:58 am
I notice on a new frame that there is no inner metal sleeve in the bottom bracket. The black screw in cups are still there but Im not sure what they are screwing into. Ive also noticed extra reinforcement inside the head tube that butts up to the headset cups.

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Calnago
Posts: 5763
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

No need for concern as to its legitimacy. They changed the design a bit, the exact reasoning I’m not sure of. But in any case, there are now two “collars” instead. But same Threadfit BB technology. In pondering why they may have made the change I’m guessing it’s either due to making it easier to manufacture or possibly making it easier to route all the electrical wires from the electric groups through there. As long as they have a method to ensure that those two collars are positioned absolutely square and aligned to each other within the shell, I’m ok with that.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

nickstea
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:15 pm

by nickstea

Calnago wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:54 pm
No need for concern as to its legitimacy. They changed the design a bit, the exact reasoning I’m not sure of. But in any case, there are now two “collars” instead. But same Threadfit BB technology. In pondering why they may have made the change I’m guessing it’s either due to making it easier to manufacture or possibly making it easier to route all the electrical wires from the electric groups through there. As long as they have a method to ensure that those two collars are positioned absolutely square and aligned to each other within the shell, I’m ok with that.
Thanks Calnago for your input. I’m still a little concerned because I bought the frame (new) from a third party (not a dealer)

Here is another bottom bracket (not mine), does it appear to have the sleeve?

Image

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Calnago
Posts: 5763
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Can’t see the pic, at least not on my iPhone (via Tapatalk). But it’s pretty easy to tell if it has the sleeve or not. Get that pic of yours to work and I’ll tell you.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

mag
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

@nickstea The one on that photo does have the sleeve. You'd just see the "raw" inside of the carbon BB area if there would be no sleeve.

by Weenie


BigCol
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:03 pm
Location: UK

by BigCol

Ordered a C60 in August, took delivery mid November.

It has a single piece BB metal insert - see attached pic :)

Col.
Attachments
20171117_000158.jpeg

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