2018 CAMPAG HO RD vs 2015 CAMPAG RD

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
wwnick
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

by wwnick

so 2015 RDs are no longer for sale so this means all new mechanical models will be HO.

no mention of HO Tech here: https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Compon ... derailleur

only info i could find was on https://www.bike24.com/p2229836.html which says:
"The HO version of the Chorus rear derailleur has been especially optimized for disc-brake frames with with 142 mm OLD. The derailleur mounting link and its design has been adapted to provide an easy mounting and dismounting of the thru axle or rear wheel. Furthermore the teeth of the upper pulley has been extended to guarantee precisely shifting also at high skew."

¿anybody seen these in the wild and can make any comment?

*according to 2018 price list https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... RP-ENG.pdf

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

CH, RE, SR HO RDs are fully interchangeable with 2015-2017 CH, RE and SR shifter systems.
PO HO RDs are fully interchangeable with 2015-2017 PO shifter systems.
PO Centuar 11 RDs can only be used with Centaur 11 shifter systems.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

by Weenie


xcnick
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by xcnick

graeme_f_k wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:34 pm
.
PO Centuar 11 RDs can only be used with Centaur 11 shifter systems.
Is the ‘PO’ here a typo?

vejnemojnen
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by vejnemojnen

PO is short for potenza

But HO potenza is typo

spud
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by spud

graeme_f_k wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:34 pm
CH, RE, SR HO RDs are fully interchangeable with 2015-2017 CH, RE and SR shifter systems.
PO HO RDs are fully interchangeable with 2015-2017 PO shifter systems.
PO Centuar 11 RDs can only be used with Centaur 11 shifter systems.
That is very good news, perhaps contrary to my expectations.

liam7020
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by liam7020

Hi graeme_f_k

Just when I see you on the forum, any idea if the new 12sp EPS levers, whenever they appear, will be in any way back compatible with the existing EPS 11sp derailleurs? If not it's going to be extremely expensive for existing EPS users to move up to 12 speed. Also will the 12sp EPS be compatible with the existing V3 power unit and interface? Ta.
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Miller
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by Miller

If he knows he's probably embargoed from telling you that, lol. But I can't see how the existing V3 interface unit for 11sp will be able to drive EPS 12 speed. Besides, Campag may want to shrink the interface unit so it can be inserted into those little cupboards that are beginning to appear on frames.

joeyb1000
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:37 pm

by joeyb1000

wwnick, I just did what you are asking about. I replaced a 2015 Record derailleur with an HO medium cage. I can't really see the difference, but it works perfectly.
FYI, the medium cage works as well (or better) as the regular cage on all my cassettes.

liam7020
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by liam7020

Miller wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:58 pm
If he knows he's probably embargoed from telling you that, lol. But I can't see how the existing V3 interface unit for 11sp will be able to drive EPS 12 speed. Besides, Campag may want to shrink the interface unit so it can be inserted into those little cupboards that are beginning to appear on frames.
Just occurred to me that it's all probably immaterial - the new EPS 12 speed may well be wireless??!
Belgian Flag S-Works Tarmac viewtopic.php?f=10&t=144553

"Sometimes you don't need a plan. You just need big balls." Tom Boonen

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

@Miller,
I'm limited in what I can tell you, it's true, however, a general observation re EPS from knowledge that we pass onto store mechanics during EPS training sessions:
The architecture of EPS has firmware in two places - broadly the IF is responsible for translating the rider commands into a signal that the PU can understand (it's the PU that actually instructs the derailleurs) and for communicating with the rider.
So to make the current EPS electronics run a 12s set up could be tackled as a programming task in the IF and the PU.
I'm not saying it will - I am saying that it "could be" ... you'll have to wait until later in the year to know!
The shifting hardware - well, that's a whole different ball-game ...

@liam7020
Maybe it will, maybe it won't ... there area whole raft of things that development depends on, for any component maker.
The technology to make some kind of wireless shifting it is not really a problem and wasn't a problem a decade or more before SRAM came along with their solution. Most of the problem is around using a motor actuated shift & the battery to drive it and these days, the price & charging capacity / discharge rate of that battery.
As an example, Mavic Mektronic managed quite well using the motion of the top jockey wheel to actuate the movement of the RD. The electonics-at-the-price were the weakness with Mektronic, not the technology as such.
In engineering there is always more than one way to do it ... SRAM chose a particular path but a lot of that path is battery-dictated. They have a strategic patent on switching the derailleurs into a "sleep mode" after a predetermined time, so for a shift to happen the derailleur has to "wake up", if that shift is requested "x" amount of time after the last shift. The problem with that can be a "laggy" initial shift. Battery technology already exists that makes it unnecessary to put the derailleur to sleep - the charge / discharge rates work with current actuators and command protocols - the problem is that the batteries are fantastically expensive. Once they drop in price and can be sensibly used, then I suspect other players will come into the market - they will need to find other areas of difference (if they have not already done so) to make their offering unique in IP terms to avoid others using the same technologies.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

vejnemojnen wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:20 pm
PO is short for potenza

But HO potenza is typo
Sort of - Potenza Hydraulic is actually correctly termed H11 rather than HO but it's a semantic difference - it's still "Hydraulic Optimsed".
The reason it's differently labelled is to underline the fact that there is no recommended cross-compatibility between CH-RE-SR and PO.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

joeyb1000 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:35 pm
wwnick, I just did what you are asking about. I replaced a 2015 Record derailleur with an HO medium cage. I can't really see the difference, but it works perfectly.
FYI, the medium cage works as well (or better) as the regular cage on all my cassettes.
The RDs have been changed around the top pivot area. This helps to accommodate the increased cross-loads that come from a longer (medium) cage when it's fully extended (in the big-to-big full cross). This will have knock-on effect for all cassettes' shifting.

The deatil of Campagnolo's recommendations includes their comment that 11-32 and 11-29 both benefit from the use of an HO medium cage (even though a short cage is all that is actually required for the 11-29). We've also seen (in the field) nicer shifting on a 27 bottom.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

morrisond
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by morrisond

Hi Graeme - Any Chance a Potenza RD will work with Pre-2015 Chorus or will the Medium Cage from the Potenza RD fit on the old Chorus RD?

Boshk
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am

by Boshk

graeme_f_k wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:36 pm
joeyb1000 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:35 pm
wwnick, I just did what you are asking about. I replaced a 2015 Record derailleur with an HO medium cage. I can't really see the difference, but it works perfectly.
FYI, the medium cage works as well (or better) as the regular cage on all my cassettes.
The RDs have been changed around the top pivot area. This helps to accommodate the increased cross-loads that come from a longer (medium) cage when it's fully extended (in the big-to-big full cross). This will have knock-on effect for all cassettes' shifting.

The deatil of Campagnolo's recommendations includes their comment that 11-32 and 11-29 both benefit from the use of an HO medium cage (even though a short cage is all that is actually required for the 11-29). We've also seen (in the field) nicer shifting on a 27 bottom.
does that mean a Chorus 11-32 cassette will be coming out soon since the Chorus has a Med cage RD? or are they expecting people to use Potenza 11-32 with the HO Chorus?
Colnago C60

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

morrisond wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:21 pm
Hi Graeme - Any Chance a Potenza RD will work with Pre-2015 Chorus or will the Medium Cage from the Potenza RD fit on the old Chorus RD?
Potenza is not properly compatible with Chorus - see multiple postings passim WRT return spring tension and the difficulty of getting a good reliable set-up with acceptable longevity.

Med cage from Potenza will swap over (the assembly is the same) but results are very varied and we don't recommend it.
Some users report poor shifting and testing in house here & at Campagnolo indicates a much noisier transmission.
Loadings on the upper pivot are drastically increased when cross-chaining (longer cage = greater leverage) so increasing wear and tear issues and in all-carbon upper knuckles, an increased posibility of failure. HO mechs have been modified in the upper knuckle area.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

by Weenie


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