Tubeless tire questions

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1775
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by TobinHatesYou

25mm Pro Ones are 28.5-29mm on 19mm internal rims.
25mm Hutchinson Fusion Galactiks (haven't tried the Performance) are 26.5-27mm on the same rims.

Pro Ones seem to have basically no puncture protection, so they are lighter. Orange Seal definitely likes to soak into or adhere to the roughened interior. Fusions are so smooth inside, Dried Orange Seal doesn't adhere to the interior at all.

For glass smooth roads with no debris, it's tough to beat Pro Ones. I've been looking for alternatives because I tend to get sprayed in the butt with sealant every other week while riding Pro Ones. So far after 700mi, I have not had a single puncture with either front or rear Zipp Tangente Speed RT25. If I buy Pro Ones again, I will be buying the "23mm" labeled tires because I'm fairly sure they will measure almost 27mm on my wheels.

by Weenie


jlok
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

I agree. My luck with the Pro One has been used up (at least for the rear tire).

With your figures I'd like to bet on Galactiks 28mm (so I bet it would be 30 on my rim with 21mm int width). My Pro One 25 is 28.7 at 80psi.

Pro One does ride really well tho... I really like the feel.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Scott2017
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 11:40 am

by Scott2017

Just started running tubeless for the first time. Roval clx 50’s with factory rim tape, Schwalbe valves, Panaracer 25 evos with 30 ml of Stan’s sealant for each. Only been a day or two but I don’t hear any sealant sloshing around in the tires, is that normal? Also, how do you know when to top up aside from the time suggestions? Is it okay to mix different sealants?

jfranci3
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

jlok wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:57 am
Just a quick finding:
Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless 25mm is about 9mm wider than Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance Tubeless (not Tubeless Ready).

Schwalbe Pro One 25mm vs Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance 25mm https://imgur.com/gallery/fcqza

Weight of the Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance 25mm Tubeless weight is 339g! https://imgur.com/gallery/pKgkm
I just replaced my word Fusion 5 25c with an old Pro One while I wait for a replacement tire on order, it feels huge.

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DOUG
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by DOUG

The Pro Ones certainly run wide, which is actually part of the reason I like them. Lightweight and nice and wide for the rough roads that make up a large propoertion of my riding. My 25mm Pro Ones are 27.3mm on a 17.5mm internal rim.

Aeo
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:06 am

by Aeo

Scott2017 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:18 pm
Just started running tubeless for the first time. Roval clx 50’s with factory rim tape, Schwalbe valves, Panaracer 25 evos with 30 ml of Stan’s sealant for each. Only been a day or two but I don’t hear any sealant sloshing around in the tires, is that normal? Also, how do you know when to top up aside from the time suggestions? Is it okay to mix different sealants?
You can mix latex-based sealants no problem, and Schwalbe Doc Blue is relabeled Stan's

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

You cant really mix sealants. Latex sealants come in two broad types, natural latex and artificial latex. Ammonia free and ammonia dealers should not be mixed and neither should natural and artificial latex sealants.

Then there is the other sealant ingredients. Mixing them may comprise performance depending on the ratio of mix and the sealant being mixed.

A broad brush generalisation may lead to unhappiness.

If you have a few ml of one left and add 30ml then your probably going to be fine

Marin
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by Marin

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:19 am
30ml
How much sealant are you usually putting in a tyre?

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Lewn777
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

Problem: I get loads of flats. Solution: Run tougher tires.
The solution isn't tubeless. Tubeless is annoying, I live in Asia and that means I have to have Orange sealant posted from the other side of world, because Stans and the plethora of rebaged Stans like Doc Blue and Sun sealant doesn't work for road. You can't just have training tires and throw on race tires one day, you have to change the tape add more sealant half of which probably ends up on the floor and do the whole process again, you might only need a floor pump or you might need a compressor. If rims were all sealed, sealant always worked and was easily, cheaply available and tire rim combos were standardised like a UST lite system that Mavic is making happen maybe, but then again I don't like Mavic hubs, I like DT Swiss and Campag.

Honestly I have a crank based PM and a heart rate monitor, I can see my improvement, I don't really care if I lose a few watts on a training ride. MTB is a different situation, and a no-brainer, mostly becuase tires last a lot longer.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

If you don’t care about losing watts on a training ride, just buy a pair of cheap TLR training wheels. People don’t unglue “training tubulars” and put on race day tubs...they use different wheelsets. I didn’t do that with regular clincher wheelsets either.

Also I don’t retape my rims when I change tires unless there is an obvious problem. Why would I?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I train on my race wheels lewn because the tyres I use are tough enough for training and fast enough for racing.

I cant help with the sealant situation though except buy lots at once. if the taping is done right it does not have to be redone every tyre change.

There are tougher tubeless tyre out there. Goodyear eagle is one promising canditadte and the IRC formula Pro X guard serve mme well in the U.K. your roads may be fitt for MTB tyres though only. in fact that the u.k now, your roads are probably alot better.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:38 pm
I train on my race wheels lewn because the tyres I use are tough enough for training and fast enough for racing.

I cant help with the sealant situation though except buy lots at once. if the taping is done right it does not have to be redone every tyre change.

There are tougher tubeless tyre out there. Goodyear eagle is one promising canditadte and the IRC formula Pro X guard serve mme well in the U.K. your roads may be fitt for MTB tyres though only. in fact that the u.k now, your roads are probably alot better.
Actually I ride 3-6 weeks a year in South Devon, and the rest riding in Shandong China. The roads in China are uber smooth, like the best Spanish roads, but are sometimes covered in industrial crap like glass and metal that can slash your tires. The roads in the mountains can also be pristine but as bad as a Devon country lanes depending on where you are. I did one 400km ride in China and ate through 3 tubes on Conti 4 seasons and had to ride the last 30km on the rim and tire with no air, but did a 320km ride a few days ago on a Panaracer Race D Evo3 with no punctures at all. So people can talk about wattage savings all they want, but taking one spare tube and a 10g glue-on patch kit saves me nearly 200g and about an hour. The Race D also rails corners, almost as good as a race tire, especially in hot conditions.

Even with MTB I usually need to completely retape my rims, sometimes I can get away with it, problem is here it's very hard to find the exact size tape. I don't change rims by tire choice but by rim depth. I use Panaracer Race D Evo3 tubed, but I'd be open to a tubeless version, but really wasn't overly impressed with the Race A tubeless.

Really I'm looking for a bombproof super-tough reasonably priced tubeless tire for training, then maybe something quicker on the deeper rims. There's nothing really exciting out there given the cost and hassle, but I'm open.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:01 pm
If you don’t care about losing watts on a training ride, just buy a pair of cheap TLR training wheels. People don’t unglue “training tubulars” and put on race day tubs...they use different wheelsets. I didn’t do that with regular clincher wheelsets either.

Also I don’t retape my rims when I change tires unless there is an obvious problem. Why would I?
Yeah, maybe cheap TLR wheels like the Vuelta stuff? Actually I've got a set on my CX disk bike, might need to invest in rim winter wheels.

Aeo
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:06 am

by Aeo

Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:05 pm
Really I'm looking for a bombproof super-tough reasonably priced tubeless tire for training, then maybe something quicker on the deeper rims. There's nothing really exciting out there given the cost and hassle, but I'm open.
How wide? Maybe a 700x32 Gravelking

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Lewn777
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

Aeo wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:16 pm
Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:05 pm
Really I'm looking for a bombproof super-tough reasonably priced tubeless tire for training, then maybe something quicker on the deeper rims. There's nothing really exciting out there given the cost and hassle, but I'm open.
How wide? Maybe a 700x32 Gravelking
25mm, frame restriction. I've got Schwalbe G-One 32mm fast on my CX, like them well enough, but I love a slick.

by Weenie


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