Tubeless tire questions

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
eyedrop
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:33 am
Location: Prescott, AZ

by eyedrop

Ive been curious about some Stans wheels that are tubeless compatible. Ive had tubeless on my MTB for a couple months, and the only flat I had was from the bike sitting. The tire totally came off the bead. Because Im a noob, I brought it into the shop. Turns out I need a special pump..

How often do you flat on road tubeless? Are pinch style flats still possible, where the bead breaks from hard impact and lets the air out?

Can I get away with leaving the tubes at home for my normal club/training rides? I do always have the cell phone for the 0.2% chance I get a flat. Or is that an accurate number?

Id say with my normal tubed setup in my area, its about 5-10% chance of flat in a typical 2 hour ride. So maybe once or twice a month...

by Weenie


justaute
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: UT/TX/PA, USA

by justaute

My 2 cents. FWIW...I'm ~6'1" and 210 lbs.

I've been tubeless, road/mtb/cx/gravel, for the last three years. For road, I've had a total of 4 flats, and was able to continue riding 3 times. 2 of the 3 times I "heard" the flat, and the last one I didn't know until I got back to the car. The one time I couldn't get home was because of low/no sealant as I had forgotten to refill -- had been 3 or 4 months, I think. I never take spare tubes on the ride, but do carry CO2 and patches.

In short, I'm pretty sure you can get away with not carrying spare tubes, but it's still a good idea. All 4 of my flats were cuts from running over debris/glass/nail. Never had a pinch-flat. Never burped on the road -- a combination of high pressure and proper tubeless rims with some type of anti-burp bump. My rides are usually between 30-50 miles.

Oh...I still don't carry spares. Just have a few tools in the back pockets. :) YMMV.
Last edited by justaute on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

eyedrop
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:33 am
Location: Prescott, AZ

by eyedrop

Nice! It seems like that setup can be potentially lighter overall than having to carry a spare tube or two. Is there a weight weenie sealant, and how much sealant does it weigh for a typical 700x23c wheelset?

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silvalis
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

I ran road tubeless for about 2 years from 14-16 before giving up and going back (because I wanted to try other tyres). Heaps more RT tyres around now.
Didn't get a flat on RT, but I don't ever recall seeing sealant piss out either, so just lucky.

Tried to go back about 9 mths ago and put 23mm pro ones on. Couldn't get the b*****ds onto my pacenti sl23 without 3 tyre levers, so gave up and kept going on tubes.

I typically use 40ml of sealant (on a 25mm)

mnmasotto
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:16 pm
Location: Irvine, CA

by mnmasotto

I was running tubeless setups on my bicycles for 2 years. I tried Hutchinson and Schwalbe Pro 1 tires. Put about 500 total miles on them. I had two flats. The sealant was unable to stop either leak (Orange seal and Stan's). In both cases the sealant made a total mess of the bike and my hands. Tried to put a inner tube in the wheel so I could hobble back home. Unfortunately, the tubeless tires fit the rims much tighter than the clinchers which makes it much more sifficult to install. Happily sold all my tubeless wheels and went back to clinchers.......just as Jason W. told me I would!

justaute
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: UT/TX/PA, USA

by justaute

eyedrop wrote:Nice! It seems like that setup can be potentially lighter overall than having to carry a spare tube or two. Is there a weight weenie sealant, and how much sealant does it weigh for a typical 700x23c wheelset?


Probably 1.00-1.5 oz for that size. Not sure if there is a WW sealant. Personally, I'm a big fan of Orange; the regular formula seals better and the endurance formula lasts longer, but seals slower -- so I've been told by Orange. Also, if you've been reading Bikerumor at all, Boyd just released his sealant called Tickled PInk, and it smells like bubble gum.

FWIW...I've run Schwalbe Pro One 25 & 28, Panaracer Evo 25, Hutchinson Sector 28, and IRC RBCC 28. Although SPO was pretty supple, it was quite prone to getting cuts. 3 of my 4 flats were SPO. Had one flat on Sector 28, but it sealed no problem -- not as supple as the other 3 tires, but pretty good. Both Panaracer and IRC were nice. Not quite enough miles on the IRC to make a good assessment. Oh, SPO tire tend to inflate more than their stated size; for example, the SPO 25 measured 28mm on my 17.5mm inner width wheels. Hutchinson gets a little bigger. Both Panaracer and IRC can get a bit under-sized.

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Orlok
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:36 pm
Location: Almere - Nederland

by Orlok

I'm running tubeless on my road bike for more then 4 years now. Almost 40.000 km with Schwalbe 23 and 25 mm and Hutchinson 23 mm on non-tubeless rims.! Only once I had to carry back home by car because the latex was running out without sealing and I had no inner tube, so. Since that time I always have an inner tube in my back pocket with a frame pump and CO2 inflater. Of Course I had punctures but always the sealant did his work. Sometimes you notice losing pressure but still going on and always only after the ride. Once I burped a front tire Schwalbe Pro One 23 mm because I jumped on a pavement-edge. I believe that the tire had to low pressure.
I'll never get back to clinchers.! :D
Once comes a time that you'll have a tailwind :D
Pinarello F10 - Ultegra 6800 - Carbonspeed C38 - Tubeless

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havana
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:04 pm

by havana

It's an invention for a non-existing problem. IMHO ;)
Most "innovations" in cycling are solutions for non-existing problems.

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WinterRider
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

havana wrote:It's an invention for a non-existing problem. IMHO ;)


That.. was my take initially too.

Buttt .. other day I was looking for something to do. For me that means experimentation. So I cut a valve stem otta a tube, replaced the standard rim tape w my usual choice for rim tape: 3M type filament tape... gave it two wraps. Installed the valve and mounted the Ultra ll 28mm wire bead tire.. NOT tubeless. ( I know.. just experiment remember...) Had to visit the local tire shop for enough air.. I had green slime on hand so that was added. Sidewall sealed pretty decent right off.. couldn't get the valve right... wrong angle at the base despite some additions. So.. a friend had a couple sets of valves.. he gave me the complete course of 'hows'. Stan's fluid was purchased.

I like.. very much. Thought of less punctures via my winter residence riding the main appeal. Entire process isn't much for time... I see the need to install tube in route very infrequently via punctures.

Q becomes: which tubeless tire? S One Pro looks like best first time trial.. think 25's which from internet feedback appear to make nearer 27mm. Normally I run 28's road.

My friend believes in some instances wire beaded tires work better than the actual tubeless flavors.. albeit he's from fat bike/MTB crowd. I think not so for road... safer than sorry seems obvious.

I think I am hooked. :thumbup:

jlok
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Actual tire width depends mostly on internal rim width, and vary slightly on diff. pressure.

My Pro One 25mm is measured 28.5 on a 21 int width rim. got one puncture and sealed by Stan's sealant and 21.9psi remain when I got home. patched with vulcanized patch kit and it goes again. wear very quickly, considering other more durable options like Fusion 5 Perf TL. Maybe Fusion 5 Perf at the rear and Pro one at the front.... maybe...
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

kulivontot
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm

by kulivontot

I've used irc pro light, schwalbe pro one and Vittoria corsa speed. Wasn't a fan of the first one, the schwalbe I've had 0 issues with, and the Vittoria bubbles and leaks pressure until you add sealant.
In my experience it is literally impossible to get a tubeless tire on without kool stop bead jack, so i don't even know why I'm bringing a tube at this point.
My experience with road tubeless has been that if you're gonna have an issue it'll probably be at the house, not the road

justaute
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: UT/TX/PA, USA

by justaute

jlok wrote:Actual tire width depends mostly on internal rim width, and vary slightly on diff. pressure.

My Pro One 25mm is measured 28.5 on a 21 int width rim. got one puncture and sealed by Stan's sealant and 21.9psi remain when I got home. patched with vulcanized patch kit and it goes again. wear very quickly, considering other more durable options like Fusion 5 Perf TL. Maybe Fusion 5 Perf at the rear and Pro one at the front.... maybe...


Try the new Panaracer Evo or IRC RBCC. These are a bit heavier than SPO, but I think you'll like them.

jlok
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

kulivontot wrote:In my experience it is literally impossible to get a tubeless tire on without kool stop bead jack, so i don't even know why I'm bringing a tube at this point.

my Pro One needed just one tire lever to get on the Roval CLX32/50 rims. no lever needed when the tire is remounted after 1000km use.

I think it's similar case to clincher tire / rim combinations... some are easy and some are hard to get on.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

jlok
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

@justaute ya I wanna try Panaracer and IRC RBCC, but they're nowhere to find in Hong Kong. Any online store selling them and ship to HK?
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

by Weenie


justaute
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: UT/TX/PA, USA

by justaute

jlok wrote:@justaute ya I wanna try Panaracer and IRC RBCC, but they're nowhere to find in Hong Kong. Any online store selling them and ship to HK?


Not exactly sure about sourcing in HK as I'm in the US. That said, given that both are Japanese companies, I'd imagine there should be Asian sellers. From a quick skim of ebay, there seems to be a couple of Asian/UK sellers. If you can't find any, let me know. US prices seem to be lower, but shipping might get you, though.

Specifically, these are the tires. FYI, relative to Schwalbe and Hutchinson, tires from these two seem much more correctly sized or under-sized. Also, Panacer does have 28mm wide even though it's not listed.
IRC - http://irc-tire.com/en/bc/products/formula/ (HK distributor: http://irctire-dist.sblo.jp/category/2039420-1.html)
Panaracer - https://panaracer.com/lineup/road.html (I buy mine from this shop and it appears to ship internationally; https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?pa ... 1&minor=27)

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