First Power meter suggestions

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ooo
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

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Last edited by ooo on Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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by Weenie


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Spinnekop
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: South Africa

by Spinnekop

TobinHatesYou wrote:
p3dalfaster wrote:For Cannondale CAAD 12, if I wanted another Quarq, will the Quraq DZero 110BCD BB30 version be all I need?

For a CAAD12 I would just get a BBInfinite BB30A conversion BB and use Quarq DZero GXP cranks. Kill two birds with one stone by removing any chance of creaking in the future.

waltthizzney wrote:I dont trust pedal based PM. So easy to damage, pain in the ass to calibrate and change the battery.

My 4iiii has been flawless, only issue is I want a new crankset now....

Pain in the ass to calibrate? I just have my computer ask me to zero-offset every time it detects my Vector 2 pedals, then I rotate the cranks to 3 o'clock.

Meanwhile 4iiii still doesn't have temperature compensation so technically you need to backpedal to do a zero-offset midride. Backpedal zero-offset isn't nearly as accurate as a truly unweighted one.

I think the reference is to "setup" rather than calibrate.
The pods are a mission and switching from one bike to another takes time and effort.
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1388
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Spinnekop wrote:The pods are a mission and switching from one bike to another takes time and effort.

The PowerTap P1s have neither pods, nor torque requirements if that's a problem.

I currently use Vector 2s on my main bike and a Stages crankarm on my my backup. The Stages is easier to remove, but only just...and since one of my bikes has an Ultegra crankset and the other has a Red/eTap crankset, I can't transfer them between bikes anyway.

Frankly I believe the portability of PMs to be a highly overrated bullet point. Pedal PMs will be the leaders in that regard, with the drawbacks disappearing every iteration. In the meantime, the most robust offerings are probably the spindle or spider based units.

jlok
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

The Vector pods are what made me sold them and swapped to Quarq.

Vector 1 pods were soft aluminum and after a few installations they will deform by the pressure of the pedal axle.

Vector 2 pods were nylon (or some tough plastics??), easier to install. They have rubber insert so that the pods stay the same position when clamped to the pedal axle.

What Garmin failed to stress is that if the pods position is changed (even slightly) the power reading will be wrong. And the Vector 2 pods rubber insert isn't really fixing the position of the pods well enough. Accidental strike by your shoes might happen and moved the pods... and you didn't know!

Anyway, if pedals based PM is required, go with PowerTap P1. I don't need portability nor separate L/R reading so Quarq works for me. It just work.

(Not gonna mention the instability of Vector-Garmin Edge communications... you get the idea from other threads)
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Boshk
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am

by Boshk

naylor343 wrote:If the OP is still searching, P2M have an excellent deal currently on the type S Rotor 3d24. 679€ incl praxis rings in all teeth/bcd configurations, currently all crank lengths available too.

As I said in above post, I was going for the ng 4S so I could run my Shimano rings, but as praxis are almost as good this deal was a no brainer.

The ng Shimano 4 bolt was not available for rotor and was also 990€ for the power meter spider alone, no rings or cranks, so I am very happy.


yea, I saw, thanks! it is a good deal.
Also looking at 4iiii.
Colnago C60

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1388
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

jlok wrote:What Garmin failed to stress is that if the pods position is changed (even slightly) the power reading will be wrong. And the Vector 2 pods rubber insert isn't really fixing the position of the pods well enough. Accidental strike by your shoes might happen and moved the pods... and you didn't know!

Anyway, if pedals based PM is required, go with PowerTap P1. I don't need portability nor separate L/R reading so Quarq works for me. It just work.

(Not gonna mention the instability of Vector-Garmin Edge communications... you get the idea from other threads)


This is incorrect. The Vector 2 pods are only a battery and antenna housing. Their position relative to the crank arm does not matter. I have had no issue with connectivity either. Never had a single dropout ever.

jlok
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

TobinHatesYou wrote:
jlok wrote:What Garmin failed to stress is that if the pods position is changed (even slightly) the power reading will be wrong. And the Vector 2 pods rubber insert isn't really fixing the position of the pods well enough. Accidental strike by your shoes might happen and moved the pods... and you didn't know!

Anyway, if pedals based PM is required, go with PowerTap P1. I don't need portability nor separate L/R reading so Quarq works for me. It just work.

(Not gonna mention the instability of Vector-Garmin Edge communications... you get the idea from other threads)


This is incorrect. The Vector 2 pods are only a battery and antenna housing. Their position relative to the crank arm does not matter. I have had no issue with connectivity either. Never had a single dropout ever.

try doing the pod angle setup first (the pedal at 90rpm step after every pedal installation), go for a ride.

then change the pod angle (but without doing the angle detect setup as if you didn't know it moved). now go for a ride and you will see drastic change in power.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1388
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

jlok wrote:try doing the pod angle setup first (the pedal at 90rpm step after every pedal installation), go for a ride.

then change the pod angle (but without doing the angle detect setup as if you didn't know it moved). now go for a ride and you will see drastic change in power.


You've made the assumption that the installation angle set-up procedure is for the antenna pods. In reality that part of the initial set-up defines the installation angles of the spindles. It's why Garmin claims you need to torque the spindles to 40 newton-meters, though in reality 30nm is easily enough.

When I initially got my Vector 2s two years ago I got the rubber on the antenna pods covered in grease, so they rotated rather freely during rides. This was annoying from a visual standpoint, but it had no effect on power reading. If you need confirmation, why not just e-mail Garmin and ask?

Also after reinstalling my pods after a wipedown with isopropyl alcohol, they simply do not budge at all. Maybe your connection issues are due to this free movement in your pods causing actual physical contact issues at the connector interface.

Hillsaretheenemy
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 1:00 pm

by Hillsaretheenemy

My first Power meter was a Pioneer left sided, just to see if I could find any benefit in recording power. Still have it and use it regularly on Ultegra 6800. I actually noticed I was pushing harder with my left leg to make higher readings... Doh. I got a second bike and realised I probably wouldn't ride it without power, so decided on a Quarq D Zero with Praxis chainrings. I thought about the D4 and in the end decided to save a few bucks.

If I could start over I would buy a Quarq D4. Both the Quarq and the Pioneer give me very similar readings on average for a ride and compared to my Kikr. Riding the Quarq has stopped me favouring the left leg... The shifting on the 6800 is much better than the Praxis rings on the Quarq (mainly onto the big ring) So if/when I need a new power meter it will be a D4.

Single sided power meters are a gateway drug.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1388
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The only way to correct an imbalance that makes sense is by adjusting your fit, or perhaps doing some stretches before your ride (hip flexors for me.) If you're doing things like single leg exercises or consciously reducing your power output from your stronger leg, you're just hampering your training.

More power is better than balanced power. I'm right handed/legged, but my balance is 53/47 L/R. It used to be more balanced when my fitness was worse.

jlok
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

TobinHatesYou wrote:
jlok wrote:try doing the pod angle setup first (the pedal at 90rpm step after every pedal installation), go for a ride.

then change the pod angle (but without doing the angle detect setup as if you didn't know it moved). now go for a ride and you will see drastic change in power.


You've made the assumption that the installation angle set-up procedure is for the antenna pods. In reality that part of the initial set-up defines the installation angles of the spindles. It's why Garmin claims you need to torque the spindles to 40 newton-meters, though in reality 30nm is easily enough.

When I initially got my Vector 2s two years ago I got the rubber on the antenna pods covered in grease, so they rotated rather freely during rides. This was annoying from a visual standpoint, but it had no effect on power reading. If you need confirmation, why not just e-mail Garmin and ask?

Also after reinstalling my pods after a wipedown with isopropyl alcohol, they simply do not budge at all. Maybe your connection issues are due to this free movement in your pods causing actual physical contact issues at the connector interface.

ah... ic. thanks for the info will surely remember your points.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Hillsaretheenemy wrote:My first Power meter was a Pioneer left sided, just to see if I could find any benefit in recording power. Still have it and use it regularly on Ultegra 6800. I actually noticed I was pushing harder with my left leg to make higher readings... Doh. I got a second bike and realised I probably wouldn't ride it without power, so decided on a Quarq D Zero with Praxis chainrings. I thought about the D4 and in the end decided to save a few bucks.

If I could start over I would buy a Quarq D4. Both the Quarq and the Pioneer give me very similar readings on average for a ride and compared to my Kikr. Riding the Quarq has stopped me favouring the left leg... The shifting on the 6800 is much better than the Praxis rings on the Quarq (mainly onto the big ring) So if/when I need a new power meter it will be a D4.

Single sided power meters are a gateway drug.


I'm on a Quarq and Red 22 rings. The Red 22 rings are probably a bit heavier than the Praxis rings but the shifting is flawless. The Red 22 rings are half the price of replacement Dura Ace rings. $200 for a large chainring is ridiculous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

waltthizzney
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:35 pm

by waltthizzney

TobinHatesYou wrote:
p3dalfaster wrote:For Cannondale CAAD 12, if I wanted another Quarq, will the Quraq DZero 110BCD BB30 version be all I need?

For a CAAD12 I would just get a BBInfinite BB30A conversion BB and use Quarq DZero GXP cranks. Kill two birds with one stone by removing any chance of creaking in the future.

waltthizzney wrote:I dont trust pedal based PM. So easy to damage, pain in the ass to calibrate and change the battery.

My 4iiii has been flawless, only issue is I want a new crankset now....

Pain in the ass to calibrate? I just have my computer ask me to zero-offset every time it detects my Vector 2 pedals, then I rotate the cranks to 3 o'clock.

Meanwhile 4iiii still doesn't have temperature compensation so technically you need to backpedal to do a zero-offset midride. Backpedal zero-offset isn't nearly as accurate as a truly unweighted one.


Do you race? the last place I would want an expensive gadget is on my pedals.... the amount of pedal strikes, pedals going into wheels, wheels going into pedals ect ect.....

evan326
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:51 pm
Location: RVA,USA

by evan326

After reading this and more, I just ordered a 4iiii for my hollowgram si

Thenuge
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:37 pm

by Thenuge

evan326 wrote:After reading this and more, I just ordered a 4iiii for my hollowgram si


Which one because in anticipation of my 2018 CAAD12 I was looking at a 4iii double sided meter and they aren't compatible.

by Weenie


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