What is the current king of aluminum in 2017?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
reedplayer
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by reedplayer

Ltyarbro42 wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:37 pm
Why the *f##k* are we talking about some dude's paint job that is totally unrelated?
because (.sorry..) the whole topic is a typical product of pointless fanboi-blabla... :wink:

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Ltyarbro42 wrote:Why the *f##k* are we talking about some dude's paint job that is totally unrelated?
Because as usual those who know their craft/those of us who work in the industry get sick of debating those who fanboy poor implementation of engineering "solutions" such as the below " QC pass"

sugarkane wrote:Image


great ideas are rarely implemented well at a production level in the bike indsutry and i can say from experance the biggest issue with CAADs is the tolerance issues with the bottom brackets.
I deal with Specialized more than any other BB30 producer and the newer one piece sleeves (Post OSBB and Carbon tube SWorks setups) seem to be fairly idiot proof and they have gone back to threaded BBs on the Dirt...

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freehub
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by freehub

Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:56 pm
Ltyarbro42 wrote:Why the *f##k* are we talking about some dude's paint job that is totally unrelated?
Because as usual those who know their craft/those of us who work in the industry get sick of debating those who fanboy poor implementation of engineering "solutions" such as the below " QC pass"

sugarkane wrote:Image


great ideas are rarely implemented well at a production level in the bike indsutry and i can say from experance the biggest issue with CAADs is the tolerance issues with the bottom brackets.
I deal with Specialized more than any other BB30 producer and the newer one piece sleeves (Post OSBB and Carbon tube SWorks setups) seem to be fairly idiot proof and they have gone back to threaded BBs on the Dirt...
A sensible post in a sea of disinformation where its pretty clear by this forum many haven't been in the trenchs and even if they have they misinterpret the data given on PF. Proof positive is the Bandini video. The great Bandini who perpetrates a smear campaign to promote sale of this personal BB's based upon a flawed data set and analysis. Average Joe watches it and goes, gee, BB30 of top bike makers really sux when the truth is the opposite. Nefarious if you were around in the days of S-works bikes pre-2015 and presuming you were...with what Spesh called carbon OSBB which was no more than rebranded 61mm width shell PF30 which made an awful BB worse by making it more narrow, they were an unmitigated disaster. And for what purpose? To report a lighter frame weight and upsell the customer to their S-works bikes for $1K more profit per bicycle. New Spesh bikes...S-works thru Expert are now std BB30 which work very well with very low warranty and of course their other bikes like the new Roubaix, Allez (non Sprint) and dirt bikes have thankfully gone back to BSA with outboard bearings which are the most bulletproof.
Pretty clear by this thread, that even in 2018, people still don't know how to set up BB30 nor understand why they fail. For those that do know how to set up BB30 and maintain it properly, they are utterly reliable.

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

the bottom bracekt in question hasnt surfered poor installation.. both bearing seats are offset from each other cause it was bored incorrectly.. seriouly mate are your eyes painted on?

freehub
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by freehub

sugarkane wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:35 am
the bottom bracekt in question hasnt surfered poor installation.. both bearing seats are offset from each other cause it was bored incorrectly.. seriouly mate are your eyes painted on?
Let me ask you... of the ten thousand BB30 bikes that will be manufacturered this year and the hundred thousand of BB30 bikes riding around the planet, what utility does is pose to show a defectively machined BB30 that somehow missed quality inspection and was shipped? Even if what you wrote were true, with bores so misaligned, do you think the bottom bracket could be built and would function? What evidence do you have that frame wasn't built into a bike and the pedals wouldn't turn? Do you know the history of the frameset? Did you contact the factory and find out why such a defective frame was shipped?

My question to you is, what is the point of your post? To state the obvious? Hey, maybe there other other manufacturing defects others could post a picture of....like BSA bottom brackets that were shipped with buggered threads, or out of print BB90 where the mold wasn't completely filled...or a PF30 frameset where the bores were made oversize and the cups would just drop in? You don't think this doesn't happen to other bottom brackets or all parts in general including outside the industry?

I worked in product development. Parts are shipped everyday out of print on any particular product you can think of. Committes are formed within top companies to determine the consequences of shipping out of tolerance product when the scrap of having one thousand sitting on the factory floor would cost the company a million dollars in lost revenue if they weren't shipped. And your point is?...the world isn't perfect?...lol.

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Frankie - B
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by Frankie - B

allrighty gents, can we all stop the bb30 debate right now and discuss who is the current king of aluminum.
'Tape was made to wrap your GF's gifts, NOT hold a freakin tire on.'

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Is it me?

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stormur
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by stormur

Cannondale is not . Because of BB30/68/73/82/A . And 25.4 seatpost. And rattling hydro housing in frame. And poor paint quality. :mrgreen:

But it could be... it's not a rocket science to solve those issues.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

Wookski
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

freehub wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:36 pm
sugarkane wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:35 am
the bottom bracekt in question hasnt surfered poor installation.. both bearing seats are offset from each other cause it was bored incorrectly.. seriouly mate are your eyes painted on?
Let me ask you... of the ten thousand BB30 bikes that will be manufacturered this year and the hundred thousand of BB30 bikes riding around the planet, what utility does is pose to show a defectively machined BB30 that somehow missed quality inspection and was shipped? Even if what you wrote were true, with bores so misaligned, do you think the bottom bracket could be built and would function? What evidence do you have that frame wasn't built into a bike and the pedals wouldn't turn? Do you know the history of the frameset? Did you contact the factory and find out why such a defective frame was shipped?

My question to you is, what is the point of your post? To state the obvious? Hey, maybe there other other manufacturing defects others could post a picture of....like BSA bottom brackets that were shipped with buggered threads, or out of print BB90 where the mold wasn't completely filled...or a PF30 frameset where the bores were made oversize and the cups would just drop in? You don't think this doesn't happen to other bottom brackets or all parts in general including outside the industry?

I worked in product development. Parts are shipped everyday out of print on any particular product you can think of. Committes are formed within top companies to determine the consequences of shipping out of tolerance product when the scrap of having one thousand sitting on the factory floor would cost the company a million dollars in lost revenue if they weren't shipped. And your point is?...the world isn't perfect?...lol.
Can the moderators please enforce a word limit on the overlord of bottom bracket expertise?

Ltyarbro42
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by Ltyarbro42

stormur wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:00 pm
Cannondale is not . Because of BB30/68/73/82/A . And 25.4 seatpost. And rattling hydro housing in frame. And poor paint quality. :mrgreen:

But it could be... it's not a rocket science to solve those issues.
I actually like the smaller seatpost. It does seem to flex a little more under big hits.

oldturd
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by oldturd

Frankie - B wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:37 pm
allrighty gents, can we all stop the bb30 debate right now and discuss who is the current king of aluminum.
:beerchug:

Hapsmo911
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by Hapsmo911

Dollar for dollar, I would say Caad12. Its 300 grams heavier then their HM frame. It rides very nice, plenty of reviews to go on, and personally have several 1000 miles on them. No creaks ever btw...
Last edited by Hapsmo911 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

The image of a single Bottom Bracket shell (regardless of what brand or type) showing heavy use and mis-alignment simultaneously accompanying a claim that this somehow represents something significant reminded me of claims that carbon fiber frames would be unsafe because one "exploded" once, or that open-mold frames are dangerous because of one incident. This ignores the actual fact that manufacturing defects happen in this modern era when things are produced en masse and, while they are unfortunate anomolys, they do not in any way represent the majority quality of production nor do they somehow negate an overwhelmingly high rate of success in production.

The initial argument is naïve and follows a few logical fallacies:
Anecdotal:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal
Causal:
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... ductionism
and others.
Exp001 || Other projects in the works.

stormur
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by stormur

Ltyarbro42 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:54 pm
stormur wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:00 pm
Cannondale is not . Because of BB30/68/73/82/A . And 25.4 seatpost. And rattling hydro housing in frame. And poor paint quality. :mrgreen:

But it could be... it's not a rocket science to solve those issues.
I actually like the smaller seatpost. It does seem to flex a little more under big hits.
Wall thickness of 25.4 post says to me it doesn't flex at all... thing ( C "save" post ) is 4 times thicker than Deda Superleggero 27.2.
2nd issue is availability ; how many brands make it ? 2? FSA & Enve... both 200g+ ( lets forget chinese unbranded stuff ). 27,2 wouldn't hurt , same as BSA. That would make Caad almost perfect alu frame. How much it would cost Cannondale to make it ? Nothing... just "pride" of abandoning "their" (BB30) invention ...
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

Berk makes a 25.4 seatpost.
It's also a very, very common size for the BMX Market (which is far larger, and eclipses, the road & mountain markets combined). There are plenty of brand offerings for 25.4mm seatposts.
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