Weight weenie frame choice

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
964Cup
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

Johnny Rad wrote:I believe that THM cranks are also compatible with BB86/90, but they're not cheap! Then again, a top notch WW frame (R5CA, SS Evo, Edmonda, Addict (!!!), Berk, AX, Crumpton, Parlee, etc) deserves nothing le$$.

I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes! For what its worth, I'm leery of repairing the R5CA. It'll be very exciting either way. Good luck!

- Just a thought, what about an aero build? You've had a crazy light psuedo-aero climbing machine, so what what about all aero??


Yes. Perhaps I should try full aero. How about this:

Image

...it's not very light, though.

Johnny Rad
Posts: 1832
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:22 am
Location: Zion

by Johnny Rad

@964Cup - Looks like you have / had a bunch of bikes. What bike brands have you ridden liked / disliked about them? Would appreciate your insight.

964Cup
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

Johnny Rad wrote:@964Cup - Looks like you have / had a bunch of bikes. What bike brands have you ridden liked / disliked about them? Would appreciate your insight.

Not that many. Here are all the bikes, but without comments. Most of them I upgraded or custom built from the outset, so I can only really speak about the frameset in the context of my build. I also build a lot of my own wheels, and have a lot of factory wheelsets, so I listed those separately. Anything with an asterisk* I no longer own. Tell me which ones you want to know about. I've ridden other bikes, but won't comment on bikes I've not owned as I think you need to live with something before you know it properly. I'm not including hybrids, mountain bikes or BSOs. In the wheels I've not included a pile of vintage wheelsets awaiting restoration.

Bikes
Mekk Poggio 2.0, DA7900
Specialized Allez (eBay special, early 2000's I suppose, rat/turbo bike), 105
*Cervelo R3 2013, Ultegra 6870
Cervelo R5VWD, DA7900
Cervelo S5 Team, DA7970
Cervelo R5Ca, DA9070 - broken
*Genesis Croix de Fer, Ultegra 6700
*Condor Super Acciaio, Ultegra 6870
Enigma Excel, Super Record
Enigma Etape, Chorus + Potenza
Felt F3X, Ultegra 6870 1x
Alan Record Carbonio, C-Record
Vitus 979, Record 8-speed
Zullo Vintage, Athena 11
Bianchi Pista, fixed

Factory Wheels
*Shimano R500
Mavic Ksyrium
Mavic R-Sys clincher
Mavic Cosmic Carbone Pro (Powertap rear hub)
Mavic R-Sys SLR Exalith, tubular
Mavic Cosmic Carbone Exalith, tubular (Katusha team issue)
Mavic CXR80, tubular
*Kinesis Crosslight v2
Kinesis Crosslight v3 (tubeless)
Felt something-or-other (standard with the F3x, Novatec with Alexrims, I think)
Cosine 30 (Wiggle house brand, tubeless)
*Zipp 404 FC, tubular
*Zipp 808 pre-FC, tubular (did a Campagnolo to Shimano conversion on these)
Campagnolo Shamal, tubular
DT Swiss RRC425F / RRC525R, tubular
*Ambrosio Excellight on Ambrosio hubs, 32x 2-cross, Sapim Race (I assume), clincher - came on the Zullo
Enve 45 classic on Chris King, tubular
AXLightness Ultra24T on Extralite, tubular
Some kind of no-name track wheels that came with the Bianchi. Weigh more than a small child.
Vision TC24 on Vision-branded DTSwiss 240s, tubular

Wheels I've built (for myself; not counting those I've built for others or we'd be here all day)
Ambrosio Nemesis on modern Campagnolo Record, Sapim Race, 32x 2-cross, tubular
Mavic Open Pro on 80's Campagnolo Record, Sapim Race, 32x 2-cross, tubular
*Stans Alpha ZTR340 on Novatec F291SB-SL/R482SB-SL 20F radial, 24R 2-cross Sapim D-Light, tubeless
Stans Alpha ZTR340 on Miche Primato large flange, single fixed rear, 20F radial, 24R 2-cross, Sapim D-Light, tubeless
Pacenti SL23 on Son Delux (dynamo) front, modern Campagnolo Record rear, 32x 2-cross, Sapim D-Light, tubeless
Carbonzone (chinese) 38mm carbon clincher on Novatec F291SB-SL/R482SB-SL 20F radial, 24R radial NDS 2-cross DS, Pillar bladed, tubeless

As an afterthought, I also have these powermeters
Rotor Power LT (x2)
Power2Max Campagnolo carbon
Stages (SRAM Rival)
PowerTap SL
Quarq DZero Carbon (not arrived yet...)

Happy to answer questions.

angrylegs
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 2:32 pm

by angrylegs

That's an impressive array of bikes and wheels. What I would give for similar lol.

Personally, I think you should try the LOOK Huez RS. Mind you, I say that not having ridden one, but having ridden a couple older LOOKs, the Huez is now my most desired frame to build a new bike. You also may wish to consider a full custom, like a Parlee, seeing as it looks like you haven't been on full custom. Failing either of those, if it was me, and I like the Cervelo, I'd replace it with something as similar as possible that piqued my interest (Huez) or another of the exact same thing. AFAIK the Huez doesn't have to run with the ZED and can take an array of BBs, although you could also go with the ZED and turn to a non crank-based PM. I actually got addicted to Rotor's Q rings so I can't run the ZED - I do not wish to go back to round.

964Cup
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

Ho hum. Heard from CBR today. Not just the dropout; the DS seatstay's cracked, and there's a hole in the DS chainstay. It can be fixed, but it's near enough £1k of work. That's a lot for a bike that's turning into Trigger's broom - it'll have more CBR carbon in it than Cervelo at this rate.

So it looks like I will be shopping. I think I'm down to the RCa (reflex purchase, but currently trying to find out if there's a crash-replacement scheme), the Trek (because cheap, but I need to buy a new chainset as well because BB-bloody-90) and the AXLightness (because, well, AXLightness). Buying the Vial seems perversely complicated - I swear I saw an online order form on AX's website a couple of days ago, with logo colour and cabling options, but I can't find it now. Nils posts on here - maybe I'll track him down and ask him. The RCa is easy - there are no options, it's in stock and everything I have except my seatpost will work - but it's by far the most expensive. The Trek should also be easy, but of course I have to make sure I'm getting a 2018, and the vapour paint job, and the right geometry (H2). And I might as well go eTap at the same time - I need a new RD anyway since the old one is toast, and the saving on the Trek pays for loads of shiny bits.

So RCa plus setback post (Daedalus or Enve to match existing finishing kit) at £7,250 including replacement 9070RD and cabling (because the R5Ca's cabling is bonded in)
or Trek plus P2M K-Force Light plus eTap plus direct-mount eeBrakes at £4,750 (or £4,850 with a DZero, see below)
or AXLightness plus setback post (Daedalus, obvs) plus replacement RD and cables at £5,700

I could conceivably have the RCa built and ready to go before I go away for the summer; it's also functionally identical geometry to the R5Ca so no stem length/spacer issues. The others, not a prayer, I should think - I might be able to get the Trek frame, but the chainset would be coming from P2M in Germany and they're no super fast at delivery. I suppose I could go for a Quark DZero GXP for an extra £100; they're in stock in the UK for next-day delivery.

Ho. And, indeed, hum.

Trek's leading by a nose at the moment. But the snob in me wants the RCa.

hannawald
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm

by hannawald

vote for Trek. It is time for a completely new beaty:) you will have more fun buying Emonda for the same money. And it is sure you are buying a bike that is not only light but also works. and it is a new generation. so you wont scratch your head in a year that a new frame is released.. plus in case of crash, it will cost you less to replace. I don't see a point buying something more expensive as other options don't seem more exclusive to me. my 2nd choice would be Look, it is also completely new model and it is european brand with tradition..

Johnny Rad
Posts: 1832
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:22 am
Location: Zion

by Johnny Rad

How's the Cervelo R-series compare ride-wise to the S-series?

Does the R5CA rid differently than the other R-series bikes?

Of all thsw, which do / did you prefer?

reedplayer
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:10 am

by reedplayer

if you although like frames with very simple, classical appearance (round, slim tubes, no embellishment at all) the focus izalco max should be taken in consideration as well. i own, a.o., a ridley helium, cannondale supersix evo himod and izalco max at the moment. as much as, for example, i like the ridley, the izalco is my absolute favorite. handling is just perfect for the mountain area, and i love its simple appearance.
real weight is 712 gr in 52 incl. cable guides, replacable hanger, hanger front, fork cut 285 gr.

964Cup
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

Johnny Rad wrote:How's the Cervelo R-series compare ride-wise to the S-series?

Does the R5CA rid differently than the other R-series bikes?

Of all thsw, which do / did you prefer?

The short answer is that the Rs have vertical compliance and the S5 doesn't. It's a profoundly uncomfortable bike. I also run it set up a little like a TT bike, so the saddle is about 2.5cm forward relative to my other bikes; that also changes how it feels to me. Remember that my S5 is from 2013; since then the design has changed somewhat. Also the S3, which I've not ridden, effectively has the same rear end as the R-series, so it will ride differently. My other impression of the S5 is that it doesn't handle as well; partly I think this is because it's not as stiff at the headtube (because the aero downtube is less rigid). Again, remember my position on this bike is different - it's longer, but higher because the headtube is so large that even with a -17 stem I couldn't get the same drop as on the R5.

The R5Ca *might* be a little more compliant than the R5VWD, but there's probably some subjectivity in there. Obviously my Ca was built up about a kilo lighter than my VWD, and you certainly notice that. Both R5s strike a, for me, perfect balance between speed, comfort and handling. I preferred the Ca, but only really on WW grounds. I hate the S5, but ride it because it is faster in TTs and around Regent's Park than the R-series. I am thinking at some point of changing it for a newer S5 frame (and sizing down at the same time to get more drop) but it's not high on my agenda - and is certainly less likely now that I have to replace the Ca.

User avatar
Asteroid
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:43 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

by Asteroid

Yeah, go AX or Berk, if you can afford it.
Get the Supersix EVO hi-mod on a budget. I own the non hi-mod.
Almost bought the Emonda SLR off craigslist, but the seller took days to respond to my inquiries.
Oldbie

bbqpork
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:38 pm

by bbqpork

Ultimate CF EVO
Frame @ 665g
Fork @ 270g
$3000USD + shipping and tax.

How do you beat that???

964Cup
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

bbqpork wrote:Ultimate CF EVO
Frame @ 665g
Fork @ 270g
$3000USD + shipping and tax.

How do you beat that???

The Emonda SLR is about the same price and weight, and is in stock in the UK. Not much to choose between those two (although I'm tempted to avoid the murdered-out look this time). Still can't quite help feeling I'll regret not buying the RCa. Hmmm. Fanboi, that's my problem.

Thenuge
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:37 pm

by Thenuge

I'm really intrigued by the Emonda SLR. Price is great, good availability and local support and all that. I keep hearing about how flexy and fragile it must be though. I'm really curious how they ride.

reedplayer
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:10 am

by reedplayer

hmmm, is this the trek everybody is talking about?, sorry, but frameset looks awful! most-clumsy steerer tube since long! :oops:

https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/bike ... 0000-2017/

Delorre
Posts: 913
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 12:09 pm

by Delorre

reedplayer wrote:hmmm, is this the trek everybody is talking about?, sorry, but frameset looks awful! most-clumsy steerer tube since long! :oops:

https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/bike ... 0000-2017/


Not better than the 2016 model unfortunately. Or you have to choose the H1, looks a lot better, but that's a really agressive geo :shock:

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