Where are Canyon made in?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
User avatar
kgt
Posts: 6807
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

wwnick wrote:
kgt wrote:They do the right thing (Canyon deserves our credit) but they need this extra safety check because their manufacturing standards are not the best. Sorry but that's the only reason.
Any comparison to aerospace enginneering, high end motorsport engines etc. is irrelevant.


that should need some sort of substantiation, that, "their manufacturing standards are not the best."
but seeing us this is just a forum/opinion board, please let us know why you think "their manufacturing standards are not the best."
A comparison to who is the best and why would be very nice.

By no means am I a expert on bicycle manufacturing standards and absolutely would like to know more so I am all ears.


Anything that is mass produced in China can not be compared to a handmade in Europe or US frame in terms of manufacturing quality.
Examples of high quality frames? Many: All Time frames, hi-end Giant Frames, made in Waterloo Treks, Colnago C60s, the BMC Impec, Cipollinis, hi-end Parlees, hi-end Crumptons, high-end IFs, hi-end Sartos, hi-end AXs, hi-end Bassos etc. etc. etc. the list is big.

Do you really know who makes Canyon frames? Have you ever seen photos from the factory that produces these frames? No. You will never see probably.
Some info on how Time makes frames:
http://road.cc/content/feature/76753-inside-time

by Weenie


romalor
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:56 pm

by romalor

ahah
BMC Impec was the biggest fail of cycling history
you know nothing
It was made by machines in Switzerland not in mass but still

Even pros didn't want to ride it
Cause it sucked
Maybe nice finish with lugs etc but stupid frame

Colnago C60 are nice frames but they are only glued in Italy ...
I love their size chart and ride quality tough

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

askeAnker wrote:
mpulsiv wrote:It's a reason that brands like Fuji have been doing so well in China recently. Even their lower end carbon fiber bikes are made in Taiwan and are reasonably priced.


I talked to a Chinese manufacturer that was subcontracting Fuji frame production for a Taiwanese manufacturer.
They could have been lying, but I find it hard to believe that Spec, Trek and Giant all have frames made in China and Fuji not...

Lewn777 wrote:...Chinese steer away from anything made in their mainland...


Wow, that really limits their selection in certain categories. How do they even find a smartphone!?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I have a 2017 Fuji SL3.3 which is made in Taiwan, although that could be a Canyon 'Made in Germany' trick. Although although some of the steel frame fixies etc are certainly made in China.

Patto
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:33 pm

by Patto

Composite manufacture using moulds is baby easy.

When a new material is introduced into an industry some if not all players go through teething due to inexperience. I think most bike manufacturers are past that stage.

Problems that may still exist are poor glue selection and less than optimal lay up. A bit extra material can compensate for both.

askeAnker
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 12:15 am

by askeAnker

Lewn777 wrote:
askeAnker wrote:
mpulsiv wrote:It's a reason that brands like Fuji have been doing so well in China recently. Even their lower end carbon fiber bikes are made in Taiwan and are reasonably priced.


I talked to a Chinese manufacturer that was subcontracting Fuji frame production for a Taiwanese manufacturer.
They could have been lying, but I find it hard to believe that Spec, Trek and Giant all have frames made in China and Fuji not...

Lewn777 wrote:...Chinese steer away from anything made in their mainland...


Wow, that really limits their selection in certain categories. How do they even find a smartphone!?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I have a 2017 Fuji SL3.3 which is made in Taiwan, although that could be a Canyon 'Made in Germany' trick. Although although some of the steel frame fixies etc are certainly made in China.

Does Canyon use made in Germany?? Ha! Anyways, by now, most of the Taiwanese manufacturers have either their own factories in China or a close cooperation with selected Chinese factories.
So I guess having a production made in Taiwan is no guarantee for it to be made by Taiwanese hands. And as you say, they can probably still mark it as made in Taiwan.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

shinjiwoon
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:18 am

by shinjiwoon

I know that it is made in Taiwan.

wwnick
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

by wwnick

kgt wrote:Anything that is mass produced in China can not be compared to a handmade in Europe or US frame in terms of manufacturing quality.

Examples of high quality frames? Many: All Time frames, hi-end Giant Frames, made in Waterloo Treks, Colnago C60s, the BMC Impec, Cipollinis, hi-end Parlees, hi-end Crumptons, high-end IFs, hi-end Sartos, hi-end AXs, hi-end Bassos etc. etc. etc. the list is big.


:lol: i live in spain where they can f*ck up making a sandwich, let alone a high tech composite components. europe is the land of where gas station attendants smoke as the pump your gas. ok, I admit it, that was what i saw in italy, but having lived in germany, it is not as the sterotype suggests, however they work very hard to keep that myth alive, but that is it. America, well look at the president, says it all about that country. So my point is, that people are same everywhere, good and bad, so people should not be judged by locality.

your reply does not persuade me of your original comment regards manufacturing standards not being the best. Canyon stated they have 0.5% - 1% rejects. to me this does not seem huge. Considering when "high end/price" brands (Trek, Cervelo, Enve etc) have had to make recalls for entire product models.

regards, handmade, all carbon frames are handmade, are they not? A mass producer would have a great advantage in terms of experience, as each worker will have hand made many more frames than a single brand. Due to volume, any problems would be discovered much earlier than a single brand. As this is a new and evolving industry, this experience would put the mass (handmade) producer manufacture above the small producer in terms of quality.

these example you list, why are they examples? what makes them high quality?

this is just the way I see it :noidea:

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 6807
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

If you cannot see how a Time or a Crumpton uses higher quality materials and is a product of a way more controlled, exact, intensive and sophisticated workmanship than a Canyon then, no, I cannot persuade you.

I am certain that Canyon frames are at the top in terms of performance but top performance does not equal top manufacturing quality. The performance of a Renault Megane RS can be at the top but its manufacturing quality is not. Is that clear?

Maybe if you show me a video from Canyon's factory (the actual one in China not the assembly line in Germany) I will change my mind. Until then...

wwnick
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

by wwnick

kgt wrote:If you cannot see how a Time or a Crumpton uses higher quality materials and is a product of a way more controlled, exact, intensive and sophisticated workmanship than a Canyon then, no, I cannot persuade you.

I am certain that Canyon frames are at the top in terms of performance but top performance does not equal top manufacturing quality. The performance of a Renault Megane RS can be at the top but its manufacturing quality is not. Is that clear?

Maybe if you show me a video from Canyon's factory (the actual one in China not the assembly line in Germany) I will change my mind. Until then...


higher quality materials? don't they all use Toray carbon? Cnyon included. Furtther, Time spin their own carbon so it does not even have a standard attached to it, versus the industry standard Toray pre-preg sheets, so you have absolutely no idea of the quality of carbon that Time uses in their frames.

way more controlled, exact, intensive and sophisticated workmanship? I cannot see this as they have not published this info. I read the Time article which does noy go into the great detail of Giant Bicyles, a mass producer that has posted videos where I can see their "controlled, exact, intensive and sophisticated workmanship".

Maybe if you show me? huh? it is not me making the bold claims, I was here hoping to learn something but this seems to be going nowhere and I think it is pretty stupid to say something is better, "just because it is".

by the way here is link for canyon manufacturer ( over 40 years of composite knowledge ) : http://questcomposite.com/technology-analysis.html
Last edited by wwnick on Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

alajuela
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:21 pm

by alajuela

kgt wrote:
wwnick wrote:
kgt wrote:They do the right thing (Canyon deserves our credit) but they need this extra safety check because their manufacturing standards are not the best. Sorry but that's the only reason.
Any comparison to aerospace enginneering, high end motorsport engines etc. is irrelevant.


that should need some sort of substantiation, that, "their manufacturing standards are not the best."
but seeing us this is just a forum/opinion board, please let us know why you think "their manufacturing standards are not the best."
A comparison to who is the best and why would be very nice.

By no means am I a expert on bicycle manufacturing standards and absolutely would like to know more so I am all ears.


Anything that is mass produced in China can not be compared to a handmade in Europe or US frame in terms of manufacturing quality.
Examples of high quality frames? Many: All Time frames, hi-end Giant Frames, made in Waterloo Treks, Colnago C60s, the BMC Impec, Cipollinis, hi-end Parlees, hi-end Crumptons, high-end IFs, hi-end Sartos, hi-end AXs, hi-end Bassos etc. etc. etc. the list is big.

Do you really know who makes Canyon frames? Have you ever seen photos from the factory that produces these frames? No. You will never see probably.
Some info on how Time makes frames:
http://road.cc/content/feature/76753-inside-time


So simple minded , looks like you have little experience making anything, It matters not where things are made -- BUT who is making them them

MiddMan
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:54 pm

by MiddMan

This is such a complicated topic it deserves its own thread under a more general title of 'History and Heritage of Manufacturing' or something lol.

It's simply no longer the case of an all or nothing approach. To be perfectly honest, I personally much prefer 'Made in Italy/France/Germany/US/Japan/etc.' over Chinese-made products, but primarily for ethical and (usually) quality reasons, not to mention economics. The problem is: a 'name brand' or a high price is not necessarily synonymous with high quality. SOME Chinese made products are superior quality, but many are not since they are mass-produced. So I would echo @alajuela here: it comes down to who is making it, their experience, and their commitment to craftsmanship.

I've had 'made in Italy' items that weren't that great, and 'made in China' items that were (and still are!) excellent. When it comes to bikes though, I admit that heritage is important to me, which is why I prefer European/US made bikes. I also like the idea of supporting local workers and businesses.

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 6807
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

alajuela wrote:So simple minded , looks like you have little experience making anything, It matters not where things are made -- BUT who is making them them

Ingenious post... do you have anything specific to contribute or not?

wwnick
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

by wwnick

Maybe a title of "Bicycle Industry Bullshit Detector" and it be limited to facts instead of opinions :)

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 6807
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Waiting for your facts then.

by Weenie


wwnick
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

by wwnick

you are the one with unsubstantiated claims, I have only been asking questions, i am new here and I suppose I was a fool not to spot the troll.

have a nice day

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post