Where are Canyon made in?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

askeAnker wrote:This is a really good article on the subject. I like the differentiation of cowboy (often copy) and competent (often open mould) manufacturers. They list the big brands and their manufacturers in the end.
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/cream- ... -it/019441

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Makes sense to me. The idea that a company contracted to produce bikes for a Western company would simply be able to spit out knock-offs without running into legal jeopardy or risk losing future business never made any sense. Always believed they were made elsewhere in China by individuals with nothing to lose. Occam's razor once again.
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by Weenie


askeAnker
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by askeAnker

fromtrektocolnago wrote:
askeAnker wrote:This is a really good article on the subject. I like the differentiation of cowboy (often copy) and competent (often open mould) manufacturers. They list the big brands and their manufacturers in the end.
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/cream- ... -it/019441

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Makes sense to me. The idea that a company contracted to produce bikes for a Western company would simply be able to spit out knock-offs without running into legal jeopardy or risk losing future business never made any sense. Always believed they were made elsewhere in China by individuals with nothing to lose. Occam's razor once again.

Exactly. The whole "they are all made by the same factory anyways" is far from true. I've never liked the copy frames. As you say, they're made by people who has nothing to loose and don't give a s**t once the sale is done.
The "competent" factories on the other hand are often up-and-coming smaller factories that usually has 3 channels of income: 1. Direct sales 2. Smaller brands 3. Subcontracting for the Taiwanese manufacturers.

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Broady
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by Broady

There was a Taiwan manufacturing article a while back that showed the Giant (Merida) factory, had a load of bare Canyons in the background so some are definitely made there (or used to be anyway).

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

wwnick wrote:the reason I would buy a canyon before any other brand....

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/why-is ... aws/019939


From 2017 all Eddy Merckx frames are also CT-scanned
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO D
Paduano Racing Fidia
Open *UP*
https://opencycle.com/showcase/the-xplo ... eelsonfire

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kgt
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by kgt

Really..?

If you know you have a top product, if you make everything in house, if you control your production and you are not based on outsourcing then you don't need to scan anything.
Spending £400,000 for a scanner is nothing compared to the cost savings of made in China. Can you imagine Ernesto scanning his C60 frames? That would be ridiculous.

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53x12
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by 53x12

I guess high end automotive/race industry is crazy too then?

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/cast-mast ... high-tech/
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."

mattr
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by mattr

High end automotive are making very small production runs dozens to hundreds, potentially with very different designs from model to model (or PTno. to PTno.). You don't get a process perfect, so you expect scrap rates. And you need NDI to do it properly.

Bike industry is doing tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands using very very similar designs (and processes).
You can get a stable process, you don't need to inspect 100%. Unless you think the increased customer perception of a brand doing 100% inspection is worth it. It might be worth dropping 400 grand on an inspection machine, if it gains you an extra million a year in profit.

The comment regarding aerospace being 100% inspected is a little misleading. Each part will have some inspection done at some point. But it's not 100% of each part, or even 100% of all parts. It's based on likelihood and effect of failure. So something thats a bit of a poor design and fails/wears out "regularly" and they don't really have much confidence in might be 100% of each component.
Everything else will be less than that, some by quite a lot!

wwnick
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by wwnick

kgt wrote:That would be ridiculous.


somebody introduces an additional safety check and that is what you think :?

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kgt
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by kgt

They do the right thing (Canyon deserves our credit) but they need this extra safety check because their manufacturing standards are not the best. Sorry but that's the only reason.
Any comparison to aerospace enginneering, high end motorsport engines etc. is irrelevant.

DavidMLee
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by DavidMLee

http://inrng.com/2012/02/who-made-your-bike/

Kind of old,
One of kind insight.
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wwnick
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by wwnick

kgt wrote:They do the right thing (Canyon deserves our credit) but they need this extra safety check because their manufacturing standards are not the best. Sorry but that's the only reason.
Any comparison to aerospace enginneering, high end motorsport engines etc. is irrelevant.


that should need some sort of substantiation, that, "their manufacturing standards are not the best."
but seeing us this is just a forum/opinion board, please let us know why you think "their manufacturing standards are not the best."
A comparison to who is the best and why would be very nice.

By no means am I a expert on bicycle manufacturing standards and absolutely would like to know more so I am all ears.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

Lewn777 wrote:Ironically I live in China and Chinese riders hate bikes that are made in China. The anger is due to the premium prices for things that are made 'down the road' and therefore should be reasonably priced, yet the prices are more expensive than in the west. Plus there is some confusion over Trek/Giant and Merida/Specialized as some of their bikes are made in Taiwan and others are made in China.

It's a reason that brands like Fuji have been doing so well in China recently. Even their lower end carbon fiber bikes are made in Taiwan and are reasonably priced.


Ironically, you are not the first person to state this. I'm not surprised as to why Chinese steer away from anything made in their mainland. Cost is not the main reason. They are well aware as what's going on behind the curtains. Bike industry aside, I find it humorous to hear the trash talk coming from Chinese when I verbally ask what they think of A-Z products made in the mainland China.
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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

kkibbler wrote:Made in China, not Taiwan. Same factory where Madones are made.


All H2 Madones are manufactured in Taiwan, not China. H1 Madones are manufactured in Waterloo, Wisconsin.
Madone 9 https://goo.gl/7UwZpV
Crockett https://goo.gl/f5PdCN
Madone 5 https://goo.gl/cMdyFo

Madone 4, Cobia. I own a lot of Treks.

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

mpulsiv wrote:
Lewn777 wrote:Ironically I live in China and Chinese riders hate bikes that are made in China. The anger is due to the premium prices for things that are made 'down the road' and therefore should be reasonably priced, yet the prices are more expensive than in the west. Plus there is some confusion over Trek/Giant and Merida/Specialized as some of their bikes are made in Taiwan and others are made in China.

It's a reason that brands like Fuji have been doing so well in China recently. Even their lower end carbon fiber bikes are made in Taiwan and are reasonably priced.


Ironically, you are not the first person to state this. I'm not surprised as to why Chinese steer away from anything made in their mainland. Cost is not the main reason. They are well aware as what's going on behind the curtains. Bike industry aside, I find it humorous to hear the trash talk coming from Chinese when I verbally ask what they think of A-Z products made in the mainland China.


China is becoming brand conscious and affluent. The people are buying Rolex Watches, First growth Bordeaux wines, BMW's and name brand western bikes.
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askeAnker
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by askeAnker

mpulsiv wrote:It's a reason that brands like Fuji have been doing so well in China recently. Even their lower end carbon fiber bikes are made in Taiwan and are reasonably priced.


I talked to a Chinese manufacturer that was subcontracting Fuji frame production for a Taiwanese manufacturer.
They could have been lying, but I find it hard to believe that Spec, Trek and Giant all have frames made in China and Fuji not...

Lewn777 wrote:...Chinese steer away from anything made in their mainland...


Wow, that really limits their selection in certain categories. How do they even find a smartphone!?

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by Weenie


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