Weight Weenies

I'm scheduled for Mt. Washington. I raced it in 2012 with a 50x33 compact SRAM Apex up front (the crank does take a 33 low) and a 12x36 in back and used a SRAM X9 Mountain Rear derailleur. It shifted fine, although the jumps were huge. I still use that derailleur on flat rides around here with an 11x26 cassette.

However, I'm upgrading to 11 speed and am told the SRAM road shifters do not work with SRAM mountain derailleurs anymore. So the lowest I can go is 33 in front and 32 in back. Since I've gained 15 pounds in the past five years and maybe gain more (I'm getting old) I need to at least have the 33x36 I had in 2012. I thought of putting a SRAM double mountain crank in front with a 30 bottom and perhaps a 44 or 46 top chainring and keep the 11x32 in back from the APEX. The gaps aren't too bad with 11 speeds, and with a 30x32 I can have the same bottom gear. The APEX can only go up to a 32 tooth max.

Thought of seeing if the SRAM 1x rear derailleur, which can handle 10-42 teeth might work on a double. Or, I was wondering if SRAM had an older 11 speed double tap that still worked with the Mt. Derailleurs before they changed their shifters. I am putting new wheels on my bicycle and I want to be able to smoothly transition from flat Indiana roads to Mt. Washington, or Mt. Evans, or any mountain in this country (I think Mt. Evans is harder than Washington--I've raced Evans five times) or Pikes Peak?

I only really need to fit an extra four teeth into that 11x32 cassette, but if possible, a few more--maybe the equivalent of a 33x40. I'm only getting older, heavier, and weaker.

You should be able to use a 10 speed SRAM mountain derailleur with 11 speed SRAM road shifters. The cable pull changed on the mountain derailleurs, but not the road shifters. They are still 1:1.

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Wolf Roadlink so you can use a 40 tooth low?

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pages/roadlink-tech-page

So if I keep the same old X9 mountain derailleur, I could upgrade to 11 speed double tax shifters and they would still move the derailleur up the cog fine with the next 11 speed 12x36?

Looks like we'll be in the same race buddy.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=145522&hilit=mt+washington
The gearing is so important for this race ... as is the strategy.

SRAM Road - SRAM Mountain uses the same index length now so you can use SRAM Road shifters with SRAM MTB derailleurs.
I would get the modern derailleur and upgrade to 11spd so you can change derailleurs and switch from Mountain to Road gearing/cassettes easier in the future.

Shimano does not have the same indexing from their Road - MTB line up.
I have to snake cables and change my shifters and derailleurs everytime I change for a mountain climb set up. It sucks.

yesroh wrote:I am putting new wheels on my bicycle and I want to be able to smoothly transition from flat Indiana roads to Mt. Washington, or Mt. Evans, or any mountain in this country (I think Mt. Evans is harder than Washington--I've raced Evans five times) or Pikes Peak?

No comments on your gearing question. But I have climbed Mt. Evans about 10 years ago. Its just a regular Rocky Mountain climb. 5-6-7% grade for 10 plus miles or so. Nothing difficult. Just need a somewhat lower gear and time to sit and pedal up it. 10 years ago I was much younger, and much fitter too. Had a low gear of 30x29 I think. Pretty low. Not sure I used the low gear though. The Rockies aren't steep. Just long. Unless your physical condition is just abysmal, I don't think any special gearing is necessary for Mt. Evans. I'm confident the old geriatric seniors I ride with each Saturday morning could get up it with no problems using a 34x32 low gear.

I climbed Mt. Evans in June 2007. Left Idaho Springs about 1PM or so. I was at the summit at about 4PM. The park ranger said it was the latest in the day he had ever seen a bicyclist at the summit. There were snow flakes, flurries as I descended off the top. Just a couple miles near the top on the switchbacks. The old rule about climbing mountains in the morning before Noon is true. It can snow on mountain tops in the afternoon.

Gear ratio is a combination of both the front chainring and rear cog sizes. Rather than trying to figure out how to get a big 11 speed cassette and how to make your rear derailleur work with it, get a smaller chainring. There are two options:

- Swap the compact road crank for an MTB crank. MTB inner chainrings are available in a variety of sizes, down to 20 teeth. (If you don't have an MTB as a donor bike, surely you have a friend with one.)

- If your frame has enough space for it, replace your inner chainring with a triplizer ring, which allows you to mount a smaller 3rd chainring to the inside of the small ring.

Oh, and don't worry about front shifting. Mt. Washington has no flat or downhill sections, so you only need one (small) chainring. Remove the bigger chainring and the front derailleur (which also saves a little weight).

My current Mt. Washington drive train mates a Campagnolo 12-29 11spd cassette and Chorus rear derailleur in back with 22 tooth chainring mounted to an MTB crank in front. The front derailleur and middle & outer MTB chainrings are removed.

Exact actuation derailleurs will work with 11 and 11s road shifters. You can keep the rear Mtb derailleur and just use 11s levers and cassette.

I've never heard of this particular mountain, but when I'm not sure about a climb I go like this:

* work out your FTP
* work out how long the climb will take (roughly) at your FTP and your weight
* work out how fast that is
* pick a gear ratio that will allow yout to ride at that speed at whichever cadence you prefer
* buy equipment to have that gear, and one gear lower as a bail-out

Once you've got the FTP there's nothing past high school maths.

RussellS wrote:

yesroh wrote:I am putting new wheels on my bicycle and I want to be able to smoothly transition from flat Indiana roads to Mt. Washington, or Mt. Evans, or any mountain in this country (I think Mt. Evans is harder than Washington--I've raced Evans five times) or Pikes Peak?

No comments on your gearing question. But I have climbed Mt. Evans about 10 years ago. Its just a regular Rocky Mountain climb. 5-6-7% grade for 10 plus miles or so. Nothing difficult. Just need a somewhat lower gear and time to sit and pedal up it. 10 years ago I was much younger, and much fitter too. Had a low gear of 30x29 I think. Pretty low. Not sure I used the low gear though. The Rockies aren't steep. Just long. Unless your physical condition is just abysmal, I don't think any special gearing is necessary for Mt. Evans. I'm confident the old geriatric seniors I ride with each Saturday morning could get up it with no problems using a 34x32 low gear.

I climbed Mt. Evans in June 2007. Left Idaho Springs about 1PM or so. I was at the summit at about 4PM. The park ranger said it was the latest in the day he had ever seen a bicyclist at the summit. There were snow flakes, flurries as I descended off the top. Just a couple miles near the top on the switchbacks. The old rule about climbing mountains in the morning before Noon is true. It can snow on mountain tops in the afternoon.

My Washington is considered one of the hardest climbs in North America. It goes over 20% grade. Parts of it are gravel. The highest recorded wind in the world was on top of my Washington at over 200 mph.

This climb is on my bucket list, it is about a 12 hour drive from my house and the entry fees are expensive. I hope to do this in 3 years.

My friend uses the wolf tooth stuff with success. But he is on Shimano, sram may have a better solution. Just don’t get too carried away, people with extreme setups often drop chains. Good luck!


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Absolute black makes chainrings as low as 30 that will fit your crank if you don’t want to go to a mtn crank.


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RusselS wrote: I climbed Mt. Evans in June 2007. Left Idaho Springs about 1PM or so. I was at the summit at about 4PM. The park ranger said it was the latest in the day he had ever seen a bicyclist at the summit. There were snow flakes, flurries as I descended off the top. Just a couple miles near the top on the switchbacks. The old rule about climbing mountains in the morning before Noon is true. It can snow on mountain tops in the afternoon.

I've not ridden Evans despite having lived in Denver for 19 years, but I have done a lot of hiking and mountaineering in the Colorado Rockies. Being off the summits before noon in the summer is serious business, but not because of snow flurries- it's because of the risk of lightning strikes. It is very common to have short electrical storms blow in in the afternoons, and last time I checked carbon fiber is a pretty good conducter of electricity!

BTW, the Mt Evans climb is closer to 20 miles, and its not the grade or even distance that is so hard, its the elevation- summitt at 14,000ft (>4200m).

I did the Bob Cook race route - 28 miles - from Idaho Springs to the top of Mt. Evans six times, between the ages of 51 and 53. I did my best time in 2006 when I was 53 - 2 hours 35 minutes. That would usually put a person in the top 10 of my age group, on race day. That said, the top spot would be 10-15 minutes faster. Most of my rides were more like 2:55.

Back in those days, I rode a 53/39/28 FSA triple with a 12-25 10 speed Campy drivetrain. By the next year, I was riding a 50/34 compact instead of the triple. I never rode Mt. Evans again because my training route times told me I'd never go that fast again. Old age was getting the best of me.

These days I ride steeper climbs of 11-12% regularly, but I'm using Campy 12 with a 48/32 and and 11-34. I also have two replacement knees.

jih wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:04 pm

I've never heard of this particular mountain, but when I'm not sure about a climb I go like this:

* work out your FTP
* work out how long the climb will take (roughly) at your FTP and your weight
* work out how fast that is
* pick a gear ratio that will allow yout to ride at that speed at whichever cadence you prefer
* buy equipment to have that gear, and one gear lower as a bail-out

Once you've got the FTP there's nothing past high school maths.

... except that your FTP (i.e. LT2) power may only be available to you for 30-40 minutes after which your LT2 power drops significantly...

Predicting your climb based on a single FTP metric is just wrong. Particularly if that FTP was determined after a ramp test (or 20/60 min TT).

NB: The above requires a proper understanding of what FTP is, and what it is not.

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Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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robertbb wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:27 am

jih wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:04 pm

I've never heard of this particular mountain, but when I'm not sure about a climb I go like this:

* work out your FTP
* work out how long the climb will take (roughly) at your FTP and your weight
* work out how fast that is
* pick a gear ratio that will allow yout to ride at that speed at whichever cadence you prefer
* buy equipment to have that gear, and one gear lower as a bail-out

Once you've got the FTP there's nothing past high school maths.

... except that your FTP (i.e. LT2) power may only be available to you for 30-40 minutes after which your LT2 power drops significantly...

Predicting your climb based on a single FTP metric is just wrong. Particularly if that FTP was determined after a ramp test (or 20/60 min TT).

NB: The above requires a proper understanding of what FTP is, and what it is not.

Exactly.

Want low 11-speed gearing, here ya go: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/cs-pg-1170-a1 (11-36)