Ultra low 11 speed road (Mt. Washington)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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yesroh
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:00 am

by yesroh

I'm scheduled for Mt. Washington. I raced it in 2012 with a 50x33 compact SRAM Apex up front (the crank does take a 33 low) and a 12x36 in back and used a SRAM X9 Mountain Rear derailleur. It shifted fine, although the jumps were huge. I still use that derailleur on flat rides around here with an 11x26 cassette.

However, I'm upgrading to 11 speed and am told the SRAM road shifters do not work with SRAM mountain derailleurs anymore. So the lowest I can go is 33 in front and 32 in back. Since I've gained 15 pounds in the past five years and maybe gain more (I'm getting old) I need to at least have the 33x36 I had in 2012. I thought of putting a SRAM double mountain crank in front with a 30 bottom and perhaps a 44 or 46 top chainring and keep the 11x32 in back from the APEX. The gaps aren't too bad with 11 speeds, and with a 30x32 I can have the same bottom gear. The APEX can only go up to a 32 tooth max.

Thought of seeing if the SRAM 1x rear derailleur, which can handle 10-42 teeth might work on a double. Or, I was wondering if SRAM had an older 11 speed double tap that still worked with the Mt. Derailleurs before they changed their shifters. I am putting new wheels on my bicycle and I want to be able to smoothly transition from flat Indiana roads to Mt. Washington, or Mt. Evans, or any mountain in this country (I think Mt. Evans is harder than Washington--I've raced Evans five times) or Pikes Peak?

I only really need to fit an extra four teeth into that 11x32 cassette, but if possible, a few more--maybe the equivalent of a 33x40. I'm only getting older, heavier, and weaker.
Last edited by yesroh on Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

morganb
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm

by morganb

You should be able to use a 10 speed SRAM mountain derailleur with 11 speed SRAM road shifters. The cable pull changed on the mountain derailleurs, but not the road shifters. They are still 1:1.

by Weenie


bremerradkurier
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm

by bremerradkurier

Wolf Roadlink so you can use a 40 tooth low?

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pages/roadlink-tech-page

yesroh
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:00 am

by yesroh

So if I keep the same old X9 mountain derailleur, I could upgrade to 11 speed double tax shifters and they would still move the derailleur up the cog fine with the next 11 speed 12x36?

Pan
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:18 pm
Location: New England

by Pan

Looks like we'll be in the same race buddy.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=145522&hilit=mt+washington
The gearing is so important for this race ... as is the strategy.

SRAM Road - SRAM Mountain uses the same index length now so you can use SRAM Road shifters with SRAM MTB derailleurs.
I would get the modern derailleur and upgrade to 11spd so you can change derailleurs and switch from Mountain to Road gearing/cassettes easier in the future.

Shimano does not have the same indexing from their Road - MTB line up.
I have to snake cables and change my shifters and derailleurs everytime I change for a mountain climb set up. It sucks.
2017 Pinarello F8 Dura Ace 9100 @ 7.5kg
2013 Bianchi Infinito 105 @ 8.2kg
1982 Colnago Super Single Speed @ 8.6kg

RussellS
Posts: 787
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am

by RussellS

yesroh wrote:I am putting new wheels on my bicycle and I want to be able to smoothly transition from flat Indiana roads to Mt. Washington, or Mt. Evans, or any mountain in this country (I think Mt. Evans is harder than Washington--I've raced Evans five times) or Pikes Peak?


No comments on your gearing question. But I have climbed Mt. Evans about 10 years ago. Its just a regular Rocky Mountain climb. 5-6-7% grade for 10 plus miles or so. Nothing difficult. Just need a somewhat lower gear and time to sit and pedal up it. 10 years ago I was much younger, and much fitter too. Had a low gear of 30x29 I think. Pretty low. Not sure I used the low gear though. The Rockies aren't steep. Just long. Unless your physical condition is just abysmal, I don't think any special gearing is necessary for Mt. Evans. I'm confident the old geriatric seniors I ride with each Saturday morning could get up it with no problems using a 34x32 low gear.

I climbed Mt. Evans in June 2007. Left Idaho Springs about 1PM or so. I was at the summit at about 4PM. The park ranger said it was the latest in the day he had ever seen a bicyclist at the summit. There were snow flakes, flurries as I descended off the top. Just a couple miles near the top on the switchbacks. The old rule about climbing mountains in the morning before Noon is true. It can snow on mountain tops in the afternoon.

MarkMcM
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:24 pm

by MarkMcM

Gear ratio is a combination of both the front chainring and rear cog sizes. Rather than trying to figure out how to get a big 11 speed cassette and how to make your rear derailleur work with it, get a smaller chainring. There are two options:

- Swap the compact road crank for an MTB crank. MTB inner chainrings are available in a variety of sizes, down to 20 teeth. (If you don't have an MTB as a donor bike, surely you have a friend with one.)

- If your frame has enough space for it, replace your inner chainring with a triplizer ring, which allows you to mount a smaller 3rd chainring to the inside of the small ring.

Oh, and don't worry about front shifting. Mt. Washington has no flat or downhill sections, so you only need one (small) chainring. Remove the bigger chainring and the front derailleur (which also saves a little weight).

My current Mt. Washington drive train mates a Campagnolo 12-29 11spd cassette and Chorus rear derailleur in back with 22 tooth chainring mounted to an MTB crank in front. The front derailleur and middle & outer MTB chainrings are removed.

Marin
Posts: 3066
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Exact actuation derailleurs will work with 11 and 11s road shifters. You can keep the rear Mtb derailleur and just use 11s levers and cassette.

jih
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

I've never heard of this particular mountain, but when I'm not sure about a climb I go like this:

* work out your FTP
* work out how long the climb will take (roughly) at your FTP and your weight
* work out how fast that is
* pick a gear ratio that will allow yout to ride at that speed at whichever cadence you prefer
* buy equipment to have that gear, and one gear lower as a bail-out

Once you've got the FTP there's nothing past high school maths.

mcfarton
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:15 pm

by mcfarton

RussellS wrote:
yesroh wrote:I am putting new wheels on my bicycle and I want to be able to smoothly transition from flat Indiana roads to Mt. Washington, or Mt. Evans, or any mountain in this country (I think Mt. Evans is harder than Washington--I've raced Evans five times) or Pikes Peak?
No comments on your gearing question. But I have climbed Mt. Evans about 10 years ago. Its just a regular Rocky Mountain climb. 5-6-7% grade for 10 plus miles or so. Nothing difficult. Just need a somewhat lower gear and time to sit and pedal up it. 10 years ago I was much younger, and much fitter too. Had a low gear of 30x29 I think. Pretty low. Not sure I used the low gear though. The Rockies aren't steep. Just long. Unless your physical condition is just abysmal, I don't think any special gearing is necessary for Mt. Evans. I'm confident the old geriatric seniors I ride with each Saturday morning could get up it with no problems using a 34x32 low gear.

I climbed Mt. Evans in June 2007. Left Idaho Springs about 1PM or so. I was at the summit at about 4PM. The park ranger said it was the latest in the day he had ever seen a bicyclist at the summit. There were snow flakes, flurries as I descended off the top. Just a couple miles near the top on the switchbacks. The old rule about climbing mountains in the morning before Noon is true. It can snow on mountain tops in the afternoon.
My Washington is considered one of the hardest climbs in North America. It goes over 20% grade. Parts of it are gravel. The highest recorded wind in the world was on top of my Washington at over 200 mph.

This climb is on my bucket list, it is about a 12 hour drive from my house and the entry fees are expensive. I hope to do this in 3 years.

My friend uses the wolf tooth stuff with success. But he is on Shimano, sram may have a better solution. Just don’t get too carried away, people with extreme setups often drop chains. Good luck!


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by Weenie


dogrange
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:44 pm

by dogrange

Absolute black makes chainrings as low as 30 that will fit your crank if you don’t want to go to a mtn crank.


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