What happened to Look bikes?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
roca rule
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by roca rule

Beats me

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wingguy
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by wingguy

mrlobber wrote:What starts to speak for Look's integration again, is that most other top brands are slowly migrating towards integration as well - many of the top end aero bikes already have proprietary stems or integrated cockpits altogether, and standard seatposts slowly start to be an exception.

A lot of those stems are integrated in that they blend in with shaped spacers and headset covers, but normal stems can be used if needed. Look's system is 100% proprietary and can't be changed. And what doesn't speak for it is that the way it has been executed is absolutely crap. I'm sure every major company has had a safety recall at some point, but this one you coud see coming from a mile away :roll:

by Weenie


stormur
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by stormur

bm0p700f wrote:that's wrong. I bought my 795 not because a team used I liked the intergration. the fact I can only use a Look stem, a look seat post top and a the ZED3 crank is not an issue for me.

The 795 rocks as a bike. So quick it's flattering.


Integration is not an issue if it works flawlessly. On Look bikes it doesn't. So it is an issue. Your bike ( BB in particular ) is just one of many examples for that.

Another thing is -as mentioned by KGT - quality. AFAIK most Looks are made in China/ Taiwan, not in France anymore. BB65 bearings lifespan is widely known as short or even shorter ( to not mention creaking ) . 695/795 stems have/ had problems with slippage. Paint is weak, chips easily. Some e-post inserts ( depends on luck or bad luck ) are noisy as well.

Problem is not with Look only. Majority of brands lowered quality same increasing prices. About 7 times more than annual inflation every year .

For Look it is twice as much for made in China frame comparing to what they asked 5-6 y ago for frame made in France.
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

To address the above points. I mistreat my bike alot. The paint has not chipped.

Pinarello's are made in china so the country of manufacture need not be an issue.

The only modern bb systems that give long bearing life for me are campagnolo ultra torque with cult bearings with threaded cups. Everything else wears out quickly. The bearing on the 795 dont seem to last any longer or shorter so again not a real problem.

I have fixed my bb issue in the simplest way possible. Creaky pressfit bottom brackets are not exactly a new problem. But many 795's dont get this issue. I am the only one it the u. K i think.

The seatpost is one thing that has not given me issues.

The intergration is the whole reason to get a 795 if you dont like that then fine dont get one but saying the intergration is the issue with looks misses the point.

The bike rides well and that what i care about. Sure there are other bikes that dide well to but none said buy me. The new trek madone with all its intergration is a lovely machine to ride but somehow bores me. My old trek 2300 is more appealing.

I also have an old lugged look and i like that too. Old looks rock but for different reasons to the new ones.

Finding a market for bikes these days is hard. The market is not growing and saturated.

AJS914
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by AJS914

For those that miss the 585/595, why not the 695 or 765 if you don't want the integration.

flying
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by flying

AJS914 wrote:For those that miss the 585/595, why not the 695 or 765 if you don't want the integration.


Neither the 695 nor the 765 is a lugged frameset & will not have the lively for lack of better word feel.....IMO :wink:

stormur
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by stormur

bm0p700f wrote:To address the above points. I mistreat my bike alot. The paint has not chipped.

Pinarello's are made in china so the country of manufacture need not be an issue.

The only modern bb systems that give long bearing life for me are campagnolo ultra torque with cult bearings with threaded cups. Everything else wears out quickly. The bearing on the 795 dont seem to last any longer or shorter so again not a real problem.

I have fixed my bb issue in the simplest way possible. Creaky pressfit bottom brackets are not exactly a new problem. But many 795's dont get this issue. I am the only one it the u. K i think.

The seatpost is one thing that has not given me issues.

The intergration is the whole reason to get a 795 if you dont like that then fine dont get one but saying the intergration is the issue with looks misses the point.

The bike rides well and that what i care about. Sure there are other bikes that dide well to but none said buy me. The new trek madone with all its intergration is a lovely machine to ride but somehow bores me. My old trek 2300 is more appealing.

I also have an old lugged look and i like that too. Old looks rock but for different reasons to the new ones.

Finding a market for bikes these days is hard. The market is not growing and saturated.


That's real problem : people do accept Pina made in China, but wouldn't ever accept Armani /prada made in China :welcome:

I was considering buying Look. Made research on net... List of issues is not very long, but repetable : stem, BB, paint, stem, bb, paint..... ( 695 is still on the list , but no Look stem and no Zed crank... just waiting for non-gloss paint schemes )

if memory serves well, your bike don't accept any saddle ? and until you BONDED BEARINGS TO FRAME bb was creaky - isn't it ?
Your paint is "satin" not glossy ? Issues with paint are with gloss finish. Your stem didn't slipped ? And what that proves ? Nothing : 5000 others did.

Do you want to talk about cables rattling in the frame, or better not ? ;)

Issue with press fit is not in the "press fit" ( exceptions here ) , it's in the frame BB shell dimensions accuracy. With properly made frame NONE ( except BB30/A/93/90 ) will cause issues. Solution for this problem is also cheap and available for everyone : C-bear bottom bracket ( no, due design it doesn't apply to Look's BB65 ...surprised? Why ? "integration" :) )

I build / serviced every bb imaginable; it didn't happened it creaks after ... but it doesn't mean the manufacturer of frame made its job properly.

If frame is made as it should be (or as price indicates ) , then there's zero problems with press fit bb . I would worry much more about bonding alu sleeve to cf and unevitable galvanic corrosion if not perfectly made.

Integration do not "misses the point" : try to raise your stem 7mm ( example ) :mrgreen: Or assemble crank based power meter :mrgreen:

Last thing : Look says its frames are more expensive because made "a la main" in France, but...wait NO! made in China now... did prices of Look frames dropped ??? No ?
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

2lo8
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by 2lo8

When did look move to China?
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jekyll man
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by jekyll man

Thought they were made in Tunisia or morocco?
Surely that's an even cheaper labour market than the Far East?

Quirky designs no matter how well executed will always have limited appeal, and when their dealer network is fairly small, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.

That an £9k bike with a £100 wheel set won't help...
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KWalker
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by KWalker

Same thing happened to Time. The 585 Ultra and RXR are two frames I will probably always want, maybe toss an EPQ or C50 in that group as well.
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stormur
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by stormur

To clarify, I'm not "Look hater", not at all. Rather opposite; like their approach to design. I just expect that for premium price I'll get premium product with premium service ( BMC level is absolutely enough for me ).

I don't mind if product is made in Far East IF IT IS MADE WELL. Plenty of really high tech stuff is made there from CF ( and not only ) . And if it's not written same time on it "made in Italy/France....". And I expect to NOT pay extra for frame which is made in China, because brand use to made their frames in France/ Italy long time ago.

Lets face it : Prada made in China is FAKE, not Prada. Butique brands do not manufacture out of Europe... If they do they're not butique anymore.

Quality is another issue : for, lets say 4000€/$/£ + client can and should expect top notch ( it's still just bicycle frame ;) ) . Manufacturing cost is so low that first 1000-1500 frames pays of all R&D and production run EASY. With 500% manufacturers margin there's plenty of room for improving quality of design/ product manufacturing.

I'm sure I do not expect to much ; just proper execution of engineers work. Nice build & finish quality, durable paint, perfect accuracy in critical spots, efficient warranty service.

I can pay a lot, but expect a lot. From Look ... I have to pay a lot and will get at best "no problems so far", but usually some problems immediately. Perhaps there's also a reason why Look gives 5y structural and just 1 year paint warranty ;) They're not dumb.. not at all . I'm very sure they know what they're doing :mrgreen:
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kgt
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by kgt

KWalker wrote:Same thing happened to Time. The 585 Ultra and RXR are two frames I will probably always want, maybe toss an EPQ or C50 in that group as well.

I don't think so. The new Time Skylon (or Scylon) is arguably the best Time ever produced.

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ab01ns
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by ab01ns

kgt wrote:
KWalker wrote:Same thing happened to Time. The 585 Ultra and RXR are two frames I will probably always want, maybe toss an EPQ or C50 in that group as well.

I don't think so. The new Time Skylon (or Scylon) is arguably the best Time ever produced.

Aesthetically time hit a peak with the rxr. In terms of technical quality, the skylon still has it. But it's just a lot less appealing now.

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kgt
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by kgt

On aesthetics, I agree rxr is super sexy but performance wise Scylon is way better than rxr. Now, whatever is 'appealing' or not is subjective by definition.

by Weenie


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53x12
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by 53x12

kgt wrote:
KWalker wrote:Same thing happened to Time. The 585 Ultra and RXR are two frames I will probably always want, maybe toss an EPQ or C50 in that group as well.

I don't think so. The new Time Skylon (or Scylon) is arguably the best Time ever produced.


Walker is right.

Give me a Look 585 or 595 over a Look 795/695 any day of the week.
Give me a Time RXR over a Time Skylon any day of the week.
Give me a Colnago EPQ/C50/C60 over a Colnago V1-r any day of the week.

Luckily Colnago still makes the C60. Look and Time have been going down hill the last ~3-4 years or so. Ever since they moved away from the more rare carbon lugged frame construction. Even around me, there are no longer any Look or Time dealers here in the USA. And it isn't because of being a European brand. Plenty of other European brands are easily accessible. Look and Time went away from what made them successful and unique. They are trying to play in the same court as Trek, Specialized, Giant, Merida, Canyon...etc. Look and Time will never be successful playing in that court.
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