Upgrading Campy 10-spd to 11-spd

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
doggled
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:50 pm

by doggled

Folks - First post here so thanks in advance for your help.

I'm doing a big ride in the Pyrenees, Alps and Dolomites in a few months and want to increase the gearing of my Campy 10-speed cassette (ie move to a 32 or 34T). I have run a 34T from IRD in the past and it worked great. Sadly, it wore out and it looks like they're no longer selling these nor 32T's.

Various posts and blogs say that 11-speeds of different manufacturers are interchangeable. And I see that IRD and maybe even Shimano sell a 32T cassette. So I'm thinking of upgrading my Campy 10-speed to an 11-speed, then fitting a Shimano/IRD 32T cog.

My questions are:
- Is this the best way forward? Will it work?
- And which parts of my current Campy groupset will I need to upgrade to move to 11-speed?

Thanks very much for your help. Appreciate it.

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bikerjulio
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Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Since you are interested in low gearing, is it safe to assume compact cranks - 50 x 34 now?

You can get very close with minimal expense by using a Centaur 12-30 10-spd cassette. No other changes except a new chain.

An alternative is Campy Potenza 11-speed that offers an 11-32 cassette.

To get full operation you really need a medium cage RD for this gearing range and Potenza is the only one that offers this.

You need all the parts except brakes and crankset if your current is 50x34.
Last edited by bikerjulio on Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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2lo8
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by 2lo8

Are your wheels Shimano/SRAM freehub or Campagnolo freehub?

If you have Campagnolo freehub, you're stuck with whatever offerings there are for Campagnolo splines there are, which means Potenza/Centaur 11 cassettes if there's no 3rd party ones, and you'd have to pretty much switch out everything except maybe the crankset and brakes.

If you have Shimano/SRAM freehub, you can run a 10 speed 11-32 cassette, with a shiftmate, or if I recall correctly, an old 8/9 speed Campy derailer. A new 11 speed Shimano RD, such as RD-5800-GS, might also work according to some of the actuation ratio charts, but I don't recall anyone ever testing it. I have one sitting around for that purpose, but never got around to testing it myself, since the Campy bike has the Campy wheels. 11s Shimano cassettes won't fit on 10s Shimano wheels.
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raisinberry777
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by raisinberry777

2lo8 wrote:A new 11 speed Shimano RD, such as RD-5800-GS, might also work according to some of the actuation ratio charts, but I don't recall anyone ever testing it. I have one sitting around for that purpose, but never got around to testing it myself, since the Campy bike has the Campy wheels. 11s Shimano cassettes won't fit on 10s Shimano wheels.


I tried it recently, a 5800-SS rear derailleur with 2009 Centaur 10 speed UltraShift shifters and a 105 5600 12-25 cassette, but didn't have any luck. The variation in cable pull across each shift for Campy (being 5x2.5mm, then 2x3mm, then 2x3.5mm) meant that shifting was comprimised at one end of the cassette. If the cable was too tight, it would shift fine on the smaller cogs but pull too much for the bigger cogs, and likewise if it was too loose it would shift poorly on the smaller cogs but just fine on the bigger cogs.

However, my mechanical ability is pretty crap on the best of days, and I'd be interested to see how it works for someone with more aptitude than me. Supposedly Srampagnolo works fine (Campy 10-speed shifter, SRAM road RD and Shimano/SRAM 10 speed cassette), and if anything, the 11 speed Shimano stuff should be more likely to work than SRAMpagnolo given the pull ratios.

If you tried at some point, I'd be interested to see your results and know if mine was just down to poor setup.

The real pity here is that Campy's 10 speed cassette choices are poor if you want low gearing. In Veloce the lowest is a 13-29 (where 50x13 is not the most pleasant highest gear to have, but bearable), but a Centaur 12-30 cassette is stupidly expensive compared to Shimano 10 speed cassettes now.

shimmeD
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

You need matching 11-speed shifters (singularly just the rear) & rear deraileur, and 11s chain. That's all; it'll work with any 11s cassette (rear der cage size permitting) although best if matching, assuming your wheel/hub will take 11s cassettte.
Less is more.

doggled
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:50 pm

by doggled

Guys - Thanks very much for your help. For me, cost isn't so much the issue. Getting me thru the mountains is! If I can just summarise the above to make sure I get it:

- With Campy freehub, I can go Potenza 11-32 by upgrading shifters, front derailleur, chain to whatever grade of Campy 11-spd I want, then add Potenza medium-cage RD and Potenza 11-32 cassette ? (I do have a long-cage Record RD, but I'm guessing that's 10-spd specific and of no use??)

- With Shimano Freehub, I can:

i) Simply add a Shimano 11-32 cassette with a Shiftmate? Is that right? Can it be that easy?

Or (ii) Upgrade Campy shifters, medium or long cage RD, chain to 11-spd then add a new 11-speed Shimano 11-32 cassette? For info, I am running a 50-34 Campy crankset. Will this still work, or do I need to change the chainrings and FD?

So, is that a pretty accurate summary of my options??

Thanks again for all your advice. Very much appreciated!!

shimmeD
Posts: 387
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Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

Sorry I don't know about which exactly shifter will work which deraileur. I do however think that Potenza is somewhat different. I would get Campag shifters (just not Potenza, see prev note) and have a go at using your current rear der (always shame to retire Record, and can always buy a new der later if it doesn't work). I'm using 2002 Athena shifters on a Chorus front der that's about 10yrs older, and it shifts fine on ShimaNo cranks; so you'll be fine at the front.
Don't know about Shiftmate, why don't you just stick with Campag?
My 2002 Proton wheels will not take 11s (therefore hanging in garage!), so just make sure with what you have.
Why don't you list all you have (intending to keep in use) including model and year, so that people can help you better?
Less is more.

2lo8
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:32 am

by 2lo8

A shiftmate, a Shimano 10s 11-32, and a new shift inner cable is probably the easiest way to get what you want if you have a Shimano freehub and want to keep the look and feel of the old parts.

I've used 10s chainrings with 11s with no problems (SRAM), but given how much you have to change out, it might almost be worth it to just buy a complete groupset and have everything match with no worries of compatibility issues.
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doggled
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by doggled

ShimmeD, good idea! However, I do have some good news to report: I found some IRD 12-32 cassettes on Ebay in California (I'm in the UK). They're being shipped to me now. Woohoo!

In looking at my parts for ShimmeD though, I did notice that I've got a real mish-mash of components. I'm wondering, in order to get the bike really singing, is it worth upgrading any of the following:

Shifters: Centaur on left (front gears) and Chorus on right (rear gears) - fell over a few times and ended up mixing. Both are 3-4 years old.
FD - Centaur; 3-4 years old.
Chainrings - 50, 34; Campag; 2 years
RD - Record long cage; 2 years
Brakes - Centaur; 8 years
Chain - Campag 10-spd; 2 years

I'm thinking that upgrading the shifters to Record would make a big diff. What do you guys think? Any other components worth upgrading?

Thanks again for your help - much appreciated.

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bikerjulio
Posts: 1901
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Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

doggled wrote:
Shifters: Centaur on left (front gears) and Chorus on right (rear gears) - fell over a few times and ended up mixing. Both are 3-4 years old.
FD - Centaur; 3-4 years old.
Chainrings - 50, 34; Campag; 2 years
RD - Record long cage; 2 years
Brakes - Centaur; 8 years
Chain - Campag 10-spd; 2 years

I'm thinking that upgrading the shifters to Record would make a big diff. What do you guys think? Any other components worth upgrading?


I'm going to assume that you are sticking with 10-speed although it's hard to be certain from what you say. If it's 11-speed then just ignore everything below, and start again.

You need to be quoting the model year in future. And # of speeds when it comes to shifters, cassette etc. Chorus went from 10 to 11-speed in 2009. So a lot more than 3-4 years ago. And it has to be longer than 2 years since they made a long cage Record RD. There was also a redesign of Chorus and up in MY 2015.

Centaur has been through at least 3 10-speed iterations over the years as well.

I'm also assuming that your wheel and new cassette is Campy compatible 10-speed.

In that case you are OK with the combo you suggest. New chain with new cassette though.

If you are asking the difference between Chorus and Record shifters - there's only really a cosmetic one. Not worth a change.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

2lo8
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:32 am

by 2lo8

doggled wrote:I'm thinking that upgrading the shifters to Record would make a big diff. What do you guys think? Any other components worth upgrading?


The internals between Chorus, Record and Super Record have been identical for some time. It's even in the marketing literature that Chorus performs just as well as record. Super Record is just weight weenie tuned Record, and Chorus is just detuned Record. If you aren't willing to pay for the weight loss or the logo, there's no reason to buy anything above Chorus.
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bikerjulio
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Location: Welland, Ontario

by bikerjulio

Since this is WW, here are the claimed shifter set weights. The differences are down to the clamp and # of slots in the brake lever I suspect.

SR - 342g
R--- 348g
Ch---350g

And since OP is in the UK, the difference in price between Record and Chorus is 40 GBP making the weight savings 20 GBP/g.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

RussellS
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am

by RussellS

doggled wrote:I'm thinking that upgrading the shifters to Record would make a big diff. What do you guys think?


No. I have Record 10, Chorus 9, Centaur 9, Veloce 9 levers. They all shift the same. Pretty close to perfect. The Record look prettier because they are black carbon, while the others are silver aluminum. But identical function.

vejnemojnen
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:11 pm

by vejnemojnen

RussellS wrote:
doggled wrote:I'm thinking that upgrading the shifters to Record would make a big diff. What do you guys think?


No. I have Record 10, Chorus 9, Centaur 9, Veloce 9 levers. They all shift the same. Pretty close to perfect. The Record look prettier because they are black carbon, while the others are silver aluminum. But identical function.

for my taste, the ball bearing internals of the record are easier to shift with..

doggled
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:50 pm

by doggled

OK, thanks for the opinions guys.

For clarity, I'm sticking with 10-spd now that I've got a line on 12-32 10-spd cassettes.

Re: the age of things, the long-cage Rd was bought two years ago, maybe off eBay so it's possible it's older than that. The Chorus shifter, I'm not sure. It is 10-spd so does that mean it's pre-2010?

You've convinced me to stick with the Chorus shifter anyway. I'm getting some new wheels and along with the new cassette, that's the last investment I make in a 10-speed set-up. Next time it's a Shimano Di2 groupset, or a new bike.

And is it just me, or does Campag suffer from more compatibility and version issues than Shimano? It seems extremely complex and my impression is that Shimano is easier. Comments?

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