Road Disc Brakes- Rotor Choice

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tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:31 am
And when pad wear into dust it takes some heat with it. No?
Yes, but in the abscence of contaminants (primarily road grit) pad wear is a very slow process - pads do a lot of braking with only a tiny loss of material, until grit from the road is introduced in damp/wet conditions.
Hexsense wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:31 am
First, it takes energy to shear off the pad compound. And if any part of the pad compound vaporize (gas out), that's even more energy not turning into heat. Pad gassing out is a real thing, the main reason rotors have cut out channel to let the air out rather than pushing apart against brake pads and reduce the braking force, isn't it?
It does take energy to remove pad material, but the method of removal results in an enormous variation in energy required; for example, in clean dry conditions, provided that the pad doesn't overheat, then the rate of wear is tiny i.e. the energy required to remove material is very large. In other conditions such as overheating or abrasive contamination, the energy required to remove material is very low and so the wear rate is high.

I don't agree with the "pad gassing" bit - pad/rotor friction can (and does) reduce precipitously at a certain temperature, but there isn't a layer of gas between pad and rotor; there would be effectively zero friction if that really occurred. A nice example here is the carbon-carbon rotors used for performance applications in motorsport or aerospace - no holes or channels on the rotor surface, and at high temperatures some of the wear debris is....carbon dioxide.

For the rotors used in bicycle brakes, cutouts/channels do provide a means for grit to "escape", but also allow a higher stiffness-to-weight ratio for the friction ring - for a given weight, the rotor can be thicker which greatly increases its stiffness if done carefully (buckling stiffness is critical) - and also a higher surface area to weight ratio which helps with cooling.

As youngs_modulus has pointed out, the fundamental principle of braking by friction is conversion of kinetic energy to heat (thermal energy). Pad/rotor/caliper must be designed together to achieve this satisfactorily, but road bike disc brakes are still in the development phase I think, as requirements for low weight and exposure to contaminants (including abrasive ones) make this difficult to solve.

by Weenie


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sindrestokk
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:36 pm

by sindrestokk

What are some light rotors with good braking ability?

MarcFaFo
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:58 pm

by MarcFaFo

Does anyone know f there have been issues with QC of the Galfer Fixed Wave 160mm CL Road Discs. There seem to be very little availbe whilst the 140mm is widely available

NLC86
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:37 pm

by NLC86

Could I use Campy 03 AFS Rotors or XTR MT900 with Sram Red AXS brakes?
Any experience?

MartinHnik
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:44 pm

by MartinHnik

I ride the Campy rotors. They are amazing in comparison to Dura-Ace. I don't know how to describe it, they feel solid. Not like piece of thin sheet of metal. They are tiny bit wider but I think you should be just fine. There shouldn't be any difference between rotors. If you keep size of the rotor you can use any brand.

andy4g63
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:02 pm

by andy4g63

NLC86 wrote:
Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:39 pm
Could I use Campy 03 AFS Rotors or XTR MT900 with Sram Red AXS brakes?
Any experience?
I don't have experience with Campy, but when I installed AXS on my bike I initially ran the Shimano SM RT900 rotors/ road version ,not XTR but close.

They ran good only one ride, after that always some squeal, or noise when braking hard.

My theory is that SRAM brake pad compound/ the organic one/ is harder than Shimano' s.

That why the noise, not to mention they always warp and shudder.

Get Campy or SRAM Centerline and call it a day.

SRAM rotors and calipers/new 2pc design are way better than Shimano

ichobi
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

I tried three rotors

Sram centerline xr
Galfer road wave
Campy af03

Sram is good all around. Consistent. Not thin feeling. Not much rubbing either. Just not pretty to my eyes.

Galfer is very light but does feel a bit thin. The bite is strong but fade a little in steep downhill. I am too chicken to use it since these were 140mm front and back.

Campy af03 offers me the best experience. Feel solid throughout the lever pull. Initial bite is not strong but the modulation to deeper bite is very pleasant. The braking power curve feels great. Not too immediate and not too light. Never bent, never fade. A little heavy compared to Galfer but I will take these feeling over a few grams.

NLC86
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:37 pm

by NLC86

ichobi wrote:
Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:10 am
I tried three rotors

Sram centerline xr
Galfer road wave
Campy af03

Sram is good all around. Consistent. Not thin feeling. Not much rubbing either. Just not pretty to my eyes.

Galfer is very light but does feel a bit thin. The bite is strong but fade a little in steep downhill. I am too chicken to use it since these were 140mm front and back.

Campy af03 offers me the best experience. Feel solid throughout the lever pull. Initial bite is not strong but the modulation to deeper bite is very pleasant. The braking power curve feels great. Not too immediate and not too light. Never bent, never fade. A little heavy compared to Galfer but I will take these feeling over a few grams.
Thanks, which pads are you using with Campy discs?

robertbb
Posts: 2180
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

+1

Also looking to run the AFS03 discs but have read that some pads (particularly if running a Shimano drivetrain) may not be shaped/sized correctly to get full purchase on that disc... not sure if true.

BigBoyND
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

I remember a picture posted of that, too. Pads were too far out, iirc

Aesch
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 pm

by Aesch

I've got shimano grx group and a pair of afs 03 160mm rotors incoming intended to use with it. (lo3 pads), I'll try to measure/photograph it.

satanas
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

Disclaimer: I've not read the whole thread, and don't care much about the rotor weight, but do care a lot about noise in wet weather.

FWIW, I had Dura-Ace 9120 levers + 9170 calipers with stock pads + 160/140 SM-RT900 rotors, and while all was good in dry weather they scared me the first time it rained; the noise was horrifically loud. Once everything had dried all was good again, but the noise level was intolerable when wet. I'm presuming the culprits here were the rotors given all the other complaints about them.

What rotors will work with Shimano calipers and produce less noise in the wet? Silence would be ideal, and if extra weight is required to get this, so be it. Thanks for any suggestions.

ichobi
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

NLC86 wrote:
ichobi wrote:
Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:10 am
I tried three rotors

Sram centerline xr
Galfer road wave
Campy af03

Sram is good all around. Consistent. Not thin feeling. Not much rubbing either. Just not pretty to my eyes.

Galfer is very light but does feel a bit thin. The bite is strong but fade a little in steep downhill. I am too chicken to use it since these were 140mm front and back.

Campy af03 offers me the best experience. Feel solid throughout the lever pull. Initial bite is not strong but the modulation to deeper bite is very pleasant. The braking power curve feels great. Not too immediate and not too light. Never bent, never fade. A little heavy compared to Galfer but I will take these feeling over a few grams.
Thanks, which pads are you using with Campy discs?
Right now the Galfer pads. But experience stays the same even with sram pads.

robertbb
Posts: 2180
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

Aesch wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:05 am
I've got shimano grx group and a pair of afs 03 160mm rotors incoming intended to use with it. (lo3 pads), I'll try to measure/photograph it.
This would be really appreciated if you can! Will you use stock pads?

by Weenie


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Aesch
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 pm

by Aesch

robertbb wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:32 am
Aesch wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:05 am
I've got shimano grx group and a pair of afs 03 160mm rotors incoming intended to use with it. (lo3 pads), I'll try to measure/photograph it.
This would be really appreciated if you can! Will you use stock pads?
Yup the standard LO3 pads (will be a short while, have to build the wheels to fit the rotors to also. hubs incoming too, soon I hope).

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