In Search Of: A sparkly drivetrain

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Hoping this is a bit more tenacious when caught out with rain than R&R Gold while not being too messy. Image
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Wormiez
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:46 am

by Wormiez

New user to wax here :)

Was seeing with the guys who use paraffin wax, how long do you leave it on before you clean the chain and drive-train? Molten Wax says 500 miles for a training chain, I am at 350miles and I think its time to clean and re-wax..

Since I've been using wax, the drive-train is very loud. Is this normal? Does it get louder overtime prior to a clean and re-wax?

ParisCarbon
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Morgan Blue.. I just follow the instructions. I make a point of washing a min of once a week or as needed..

Y26
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:44 am

by Y26

alcatraz wrote:Ultrasonic bath with water and laundry detergent. Better than the degreasers I've used (exception gasoline/diesel which has some obvious drawbacks)

Then isopropyl alcohol/mineral spirits bath, shake and leave overnight.

Chain is sparkly clean enough to eat off of.

Mineral spirits/alcohol also prevents chain from rusting while drying before the paraffin treatment.

/a


Hi Alcatraz,

I understand cleaning using ultrasonic cleaner with water and detergent but why leave the chain in the alcohol/mineral spirits over night?

Or you mean dip in the solution and taken the chain out to shake and leave overnight?

alcatraz
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Y26 wrote:I understand cleaning using ultrasonic cleaner with water and detergent but why leave the chain in the alcohol/mineral spirits over night?

Or you mean dip in the solution and taken the chain out to shake and leave overnight?


It's just to clean even deeper while driving away the water and preventing rusting when you dry the chain.

Chain looks good coming out of the ultrasonic cleaner but after a night (few shakes) in the alcohol it's like jewelry. The alcohol is less clear in the morning.

I guess if your ultrasonic cleaner is really good then the alcohol would not do much but my cleaner is pretty cheap.

I hear that this procedure is not needed repeatedly. If you need rewaxing then just wipe/brush the chain and then into the hot wax. As long as the chain is not directly on the bottom it's not in the dirt.

Another thing that improved thr longevity of the waxing was to wait until the wax is around 50 degrees C before taking out the chain. I used to take it out early before the wax started to solidify and that meant it poured out of the chain aswell. We don't want that.

Silent chain even after 300km, very nice!

/a

Edit: I feel I need to add that my drivetrain is not sparkly when taking the chain out at 50C, and after 150km it's already quite filthy looking but as for reducing friction/noise and improving shifting this method is the best I've tried. If you want sparkly then take it out before the wax solidifies. At 50C the wax is a bit lumpy and gooey already. You will need to rewax earlier.
Last edited by alcatraz on Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

DaReef
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:36 am

by DaReef

Ultrasonic cleaner + mineral spirits + denatured alcohol + molten speed wax = pure bliss

alcatraz
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Wormiez wrote:New user to wax here :)

Was seeing with the guys who use paraffin wax, how long do you leave it on before you clean the chain and drive-train? Molten Wax says 500 miles for a training chain, I am at 350miles and I think its time to clean and re-wax..

Since I've been using wax, the drive-train is very loud. Is this normal? Does it get louder overtime prior to a clean and re-wax?


It shouldnt be loud. I'm guessing you are taking out the chain too early so you don't have much wax in it (50 degrees C works well, maximizes the longevity). It looks great taken out hot but gets noisy and inefficient very fast. Already after 100km. Now I'm at 300km+ and no noise. Looks like shit but it runs very smooth.

/a

Y26
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:44 am

by Y26

alcatraz wrote:
Y26 wrote:I understand cleaning using ultrasonic cleaner with water and detergent but why leave the chain in the alcohol/mineral spirits over night?

Or you mean dip in the solution and taken the chain out to shake and leave overnight?


It's just to clean even deeper while driving away the water and preventing rusting when you dry the chain.

Chain looks good coming out of the ultrasonic cleaner but after a night (few shakes) in the alcohol it's like jewelry. The alcohol is less clear in the morning.

I guess if your ultrasonic cleaner is really good then the alcohol would not do much but my cleaner is pretty cheap.

I hear that this procedure is not needed repeatedly. If you need rewaxing then just wipe/brush the chain and then into the hot wax. As long as the chain is not directly on the bottom it's not in the dirt.

Another thing that improved thr longevity of the waxing was to wait until the wax is around 50 degrees C before taking out the chain. I used to take it out early before the wax started to solidify and that meant it poured out of the chain aswell. We don't want that.

Silent chain even after 300km, very nice!

/a

Edit: I feel I need to add that my drivetrain is not sparkly when taking the chain out at 50C, and after 150km it's already quite filthy looking but as for reducing friction/noise and improving shifting this method is the best I've tried. If you want sparkly then take it out before the wax solidifies. At 50C the wax is a bit lumpy and gooey already. You will need to rewax earlier.


Thanks Alcatraz for the detail procedures.

Can you elaborate on step 2 below?

1. Ultrasonic bath with warm water and soap detergent.

2. Submerge in alcohol/mineral spirits "IMMEDIATELY" overnight? (No need to dry the chain first as water in the chain will be repelled by alcohol/mineral to minimize rust developing?

3. Wipe clean and do the wax bath.

Thanks again.

Y26
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:44 am

by Y26

DaReef wrote:Ultrasonic cleaner + mineral spirits + denatured alcohol + molten speed wax = pure bliss


Hi DaReef,

Can you elaborate your version (procedures) so I can learn from it too as you seems to have extra step of denatured alcohol.

Many thanks in advance.

Y26
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:44 am

by Y26

By the way,

Is there any difference in cleaning brand new chains out of the bag?

Maybe oem/factory use something to prevent rusting so warm bath with detergent wouldn't cut it?

probertsqbe
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:27 pm

by probertsqbe

The most detail instructions for cleaning a chain I've found is by moltenspeedwax https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/clean-your-chain. I did give this a try on several chains but gave up as the drivechain noise was too loud for my tastes. I back to Morgan Oil wet lube which isn't as clean but keeps the drivechain nice and quiet.

Y26
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:44 am

by Y26

probertsqbe wrote:The most detail instructions for cleaning a chain I've found is by moltenspeedwax https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/clean-your-chain. I did give this a try on several chains but gave up as the drivechain noise was too loud for my tastes. I back to Morgan Oil wet lube which isn't as clean but keeps the drivechain nice and quiet.


This is great! Thanks Probersqbe. So detailed. Just wondering if it is safe to put mineral spirits in the Ultrasonic cleaner so I don't have to hand shake the hell out of it??



Steps To Clean A New Or Previously Waxed Chain

(Steps for cleaning used, oiled chain at bottom of page)

Safety first: keep flame or spark away from solvents

Cut bicycle chain to length, place in container, pour mineral spirits to cover chain, shake for two minutes (anticipate a small amount of solvent may leak from lid area during shaking)
Remove chain from container, wipe firmly with clean rag (note dark residue), pour used mineral spirits into gallon jug using funnel
Clean inside of container and lid with paper towels to remove oil residue and metal filings (new chains contain metal filings that remain after manufacturing process)
Place chain in clean container, cover with new mineral spirits (bath #2), shake for one minute, leave overnight, chain should be completely submerged
In morning shake additional minute, remove chain, wipe all sides aggressively with rag, empty mineral spirits, clean container and lid with paper towels
Place chain in clean container, cover with new mineral spirits and shake for one minute (3rd and final bath). Note: if mineral spirits not clear after 3rd bath, repeat bathing process with new mineral spirits until clear. Also note amount of dark residue on rag after wiping chain; repeat bathing process until residue is slight (or eliminated entirely for fastest chain).
Remove and wipe chain after final mineral spirits bath, empty used mineral spirits, wipe container and lid clean with paper towels
Place chain in container, cover with denatured alcohol, shake for one minute, remove chain and wipe clean (use new rag so chain isn't contaminated by mineral spirits from wiping chain in previous steps)
Clean container and lid. Note: turn container upside down during final cleaning with paper towels to facilitate removing any remaining filings or debris from bottom of container
Repeat alcohol bath (alcohol bath #2), shaking for one minute
Remove chain, wipe aggressively with rag, hang to dry for a minimum of 15 minutes before waxing. Note: for fastest chain repeat denatured alcohol step until no filings or debris remain in bottom of container and rag shows no residue from wiping chain
Clean cassette, chainrings and derailleur pulleys with mineral spirits and denatured alcohol before installing chain.
Notes:

Above cleaning process should result in extremely clean chain with dry, metallic, loose feel. If your chain is not like this, call us to troubleshoot. Your chain should not feel tacky or sticky to the touch.
Mineral spirits used in last bath can be reused for the first bath on subsequent chain (we do not recommend reusing denatured alcohol so final cleansing strength is maximized)
If not possible to leave chain overnight in mineral spirits, continue to agitate chain in successive baths until all grease is removed from chain. A good litmus test is residual grease present between outer plates; if you see grease there internal parts of bike chain will have grease too. Continue soaking and agitating until all grease is removed.
It is OK to leave chain in mineral spirits indefinitely, but not in denatured alcohol due to small percentage of water in denatured alcohol
We do not recommend using parts washer to clean new chain unless parts washer has been emptied and thoroughly cleaned and filled with new solvent.
Please dispose of mineral spirits and denatured alcohol at your local recycling facility.

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dj97223
Posts: 663
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

Man, I love tinkering with my bikes, and a clean drivetrain, but this whole wax and chemical cooking thing is too much for me. And not great for the environment. :noidea:
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

glepore
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Pa USA

by glepore

You can put OMS in a ultrasonic cleaner, but it offgases like crazy, so if the fumes hit your water heater pilot and blow your cottage sky high, don't blame us.

Seriously, assess your own risk situation and act accordingly. Don't heat the OMS if your cleaner has a heater. The manufacturers will tell you absolutely not, but of course they need to . Be wise and careful.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Cannondale SS Evo Di2 7970 (5.79); Willier Cento Uno Air Di2 9070 (7.0); C40 Mk2 DA 7800 ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

DaReef
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:36 am

by DaReef

Y26 wrote:
DaReef wrote:Ultrasonic cleaner + mineral spirits + denatured alcohol + molten speed wax = pure bliss


Hi DaReef,

Can you elaborate your version (procedures) so I can learn from it too as you seems to have extra step of denatured alcohol.

Many thanks in advance.


Nothing special. I use the method outlined on the Molten website. Only thing I do is use the ultrasonic cleaner first. May be over kill.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lI0tZqIpguk&feature=youtu.be

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