New groupset Campagnolo?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
madik
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:44 pm

by madik

ooo wrote:which fluid campy uses? dot?

from bikerumor article
"Campy says they’ll be selling their own branded oil, but mentioned that it was blue and being produced by manufacturing partner. They were leaving it up to us to infer that it will be the same or similar Royal Blood mineral oil that Magura sells."

sawyer
Posts: 4490
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

morrisond wrote:
sawyer wrote:
morrisond wrote:Here you go..from Peloton


It seems as though the tipping point has been reached. Road disc is not just an option, very shortly it will be the only option for a high-end bike, relegating rim brakes to the bike path. With Campagnolo launching its road disc brake components, H 11, every major component group manufacturer has an attractive disc braking option. For all those disc brake deniers out there, just remember, every argument being made against disc has already been made, over 10 years ago, when mountain bikes went disc. We don’t see any serious rim brake mountain bikes anymore, and we won’t see any serious rim braking road bikes in five years time.



What an ignorant comment from Peloton.

Equally ignorant would be deny that disc brakes have some advantages

The dis-advantages for road are distinct from MTB requirements, namely a premium on weight and aerodynamics

Up to the end user whether those drawbacks are outweighed by superior stopping power



Just to be clear - although that quote was attributed to me (I don't agree with it at all) it was a partial quote taken from when I posted the Entire cached Peloton article that was taken down as they released the info too soon.

However I have seen enough stuff that it sounds like the Aero Penalty is minimal at worst and with good design can be mostly if not fully negated.

I've had enough Disc bikes now - starting with with Avid Mech's 12 years ago - to RS685's and now on SR with Spyre's on my gravel bike that I'm really not a fan - due to the noise issues. They all make a great racket at points - especially when wet or dirty.

That being said Campy Carbon rims with Campy pads make noise as well (although they do work quite well).

The part about the new Campy Brakes that has me very intrigued about is the supposedly lack of noise.

I'm still just P*ssed about the lack of Post Mount.

I've been in touch with Hope and they are going to Test their RX4's with Campy levers, and Magura Calipers use the same fluid as Campy (and they make the Campy Calipers and Hydro Parts in the levers) so I would guess they would work.

Let's just hope Campy will sell the levers separately like Shimano does.


I know - it wasn't attributed to you by me though ... I was very careful to say "from Peloton".

As far as I know there is some aero penalty, which might be small but it's there, and of course a weight penalty, which as things stand isn't small in the context of the weights obsessed about on here.

Campy pads on campy rims I ride everyday and like the sound. It's aeronautical at worst ...

:beerchug:
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

morrisond
Posts: 772
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

sawyer wrote:
As far as I know there is some aero penalty, which might be small but it's there, and of course a weight penalty, which as things stand isn't small in the context of the weights obsessed about on here.

Campy pads on campy rims I ride everyday and like the sound. It's aeronautical at worst ...

:beerchug:


I like the sound of Campy pads and rims as well - i'll take the sound for the braking performance - but I would prefer Silence.

The weight penalty is the big one - but it seems like it's down to less than two pounds for the hardware (levers/brakes/discs/hubs +400-600 grams - frame maybe 50 grams - fork +100 grams at best - thru axles + 50 grams - but that would assume same size tires/width of wheels/frame.

With where tire widths are going with People using discs - it all adds Weight - wider tires - wider rims - heavier tubes - frame heavier as it's wider - it's more like a 2-3 pound penalty now, however the bikes are a lot comfier to ride.

It's still not impossible to get under 6.8kg - but definitely a lot harder!

User avatar
CharlesM
Posts: 5771
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Phoenix Arizona

by CharlesM

Campy's latest RIM pads (the ones made in the last year) are fantastic... I noticed it on Potenza and they have an updated pad on the Centaur group as well.


We did all of the descending on these pads that we did on disc and they're consistent, quiet and modulate extremely well.


Campy have maybe their biggest win with one of the least expensive bits they make...

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 6029
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Have Campy's red pads for carbon rims changed in the last year? If so, I hadn't noticed. They have always been superb imo and I too like the sound they make. I wonder if it's due to the cutouts. I have a set of the red pads for Shimano 9100 brake shoes that I'll be trying out shortly, and the cutouts are somewhat different. I'll be able to compare the difference using the same rims (Boras).
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
CharlesM
Posts: 5771
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Phoenix Arizona

by CharlesM

Not sure. These rim pads were for alu... And they were awesome.

LionelB
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: Aix en Provence

by LionelB

Calnago wrote:Have Campy's red pads for carbon rims changed in the last year? If so, I hadn't noticed. They have always been superb imo and I too like the sound they make. I wonder if it's due to the cutouts. I have a set of the red pads for Shimano 9100 brake shoes that I'll be trying out shortly, and the cutouts are somewhat different. I'll be able to compare the difference using the same rims (Boras).

I would not be able to notice either as not only are they fantastic, they also last forever. Have 9000km on one of the set and they are half way thru, and I do not live in Miami.

Daniel1975
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 pm

by Daniel1975

How can the new pads be recognized?

User avatar
CharlesM
Posts: 5771
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Phoenix Arizona

by CharlesM

hmmm.... good question. I'll ask

User avatar
userfriendly
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:02 pm
Location: Kingdom of Fife, Scotland

by userfriendly

Calnago wrote:Yes, and I have a set of Magura Hydraulic rim brakes coupled with their hydraulic road levers (HS77) made for only one season I think but never took off since they weren't compatible with ergo/sti shifters, so you had to use either downtube shifters or bar ends. Great brakes. But now, things have changed and they can mix hydraulics with the shifters. Therefore I see no reason that nice hydraulic rim calipers for road bikes couldn't be the ultimate goto option over discs on high end road bikes. Unless you want to run huge tires, are there really any advantages to discs on a road bike? Versus a nice set of hydraulic rim calipers? The ease of action and modulation comes from the hydraulics, not the discs themselves. A road bike is rarely if ever subjected to mud deeper than the rim profile, in which case yes, discs are preferable hence they are on mountain bikes. So, unless you want to run huge tires on your road bike, like 30+ mm and clearance becomes an issue, I would totally opt for hydraulic rim calipers with some nice levers to match. No extended chainstays to mess up the tight road bike handling characteristics we've come to enjoy. No frame beefing up. No wheel beefing up. Same ol, same ol, except for the added light action of the rim brakes being activated hydraulically rather than via a cable. Oh yeah, and a little less of that thing we refer to here as weight. But who cares about weight, right?

Of course, this would mean that the sea change of new frames etc., and the obsolescence of all existing road bikes would not happen, and I could see that as being frowned upon by the manufacturers who are licking their financial chops at the prospects here.

So come on Magura, and any other brake manufacturers that see this as a huge opportunity. Bring it!


Indeed. I for one would love to see an updated, hydraulic version of Campag's Delta brakes.
Cinelli Saetta 6.5kg - nice and dry weather
Reilly T325 7.3kg - nice weather but windy
Spa Audax 9.1kg - all weather steel beauty
Pinnacle Dolomite 7.9kg - flat-pedal chainguard thing
M∆SON Definition 8.5kg - off-road ... thing

wingguy
Posts: 3824
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

CharlesM wrote:Not sure. These rim pads were for alu... And they were awesome.

If they're significantly better than the old ones they must be incredible. I did thousands of miles on the set that came with my Record brakes about 5 years ago and they still looked brand new when I got rid of that bike. By comparison the SRAM (by Swissstop) black pads that came with the Red brakes on the next bike were less powerful, more spongy, more grabby, more noisy and wore at least 3 or 4 times faster, all on the same set of wheels.

Ste_S
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:53 pm

by Ste_S

sawyer wrote:
morrisond wrote:Here you go..from Peloton


It seems as though the tipping point has been reached. Road disc is not just an option, very shortly it will be the only option for a high-end bike, relegating rim brakes to the bike path. With Campagnolo launching its road disc brake components, H 11, every major component group manufacturer has an attractive disc braking option. For all those disc brake deniers out there, just remember, every argument being made against disc has already been made, over 10 years ago, when mountain bikes went disc. We don’t see any serious rim brake mountain bikes anymore, and we won’t see any serious rim braking road bikes in five years time.



What an ignorant comment from Peloton.

Equally ignorant would be deny that disc brakes have some advantages

The dis-advantages for road are distinct from MTB requirements, namely a premium on weight and aerodynamics

Up to the end user whether those drawbacks are outweighed by superior stopping power


Going by the logic in the article above, I'm looking forward to eBay being awash with mechanical rim brake frames :)

morrisond
Posts: 772
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

For those of you on Linkedin - Joshua Riddle - Campy Global Press Manager who is quoted in a lot of the press on Disc Brakes can be contacted through Inmail if you would like to help lobby for Post Mount. Most of the Campagnolo Managers are in there.

hannawald
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm

by hannawald

How is Campagnolo today? I don´t wanna flame war, just asking those, who can compare...guys from my bike shop (they sell Bianchi and do sell Campagnolo) told me that they would not put Campagnolo on their personal bikes. It´s harder to tune and when tuned it lasts less compared to Shimano...they told me they would prefer Shimano 105 to any Campagnolo groupset..

Is Campagnolo front derailleur 100 percent OK with non Campagnolo chainrings or the performance is affected?
Is Campagnolo rear derailleur 100 percent OK with SRAM/Shimano cassette (I already have and my wheels have this rotor) or the performance is affected?

Thanks a lot!

User avatar
CharlesM
Posts: 5771
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Phoenix Arizona

by CharlesM

wingguy wrote:
CharlesM wrote:Not sure. These rim pads were for alu... And they were awesome.

If they're significantly better than the old ones they must be incredible. I did thousands of miles on the set that came with my Record brakes about 5 years ago and they still looked brand new when I got rid of that bike. By comparison the SRAM (by Swissstop) black pads that came with the Red brakes on the next bike were less powerful, more spongy, more grabby, more noisy and wore at least 3 or 4 times faster, all on the same set of wheels.



They are...

It's funny but both this launch and the last, despite all the flashy stuff shown costing multiples of multiples more money, pretty much all of the media, regardless of country, were commenting on the rim brake pads...

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post