Dura Ace 9100/9150 noisier than 9000!

[Gingerflash]

Ok, after a couple of rides, my set-up still isn't quite right. I have aluminium jockey wheels, 11& 13 tooth. I have the 12 speed XTR chain. It runs smoothly and quietly. However the shifting is vague and slow, in both directions. It is perfectly indexed, with no chain rub or rattle. The shifting is just not snappy, there's a second or two of delay between the click and the change.
The chain wrap seems excessive. I guess the extra tall jockey wheel teeth were to provide a bit of extra push on the chain. With standard jockeys, it seems more difficult to move the chain across when it's hooked up on so many teeth.
It seems I have to choose between fast shifting and a smooth quiet drivetrain.
I tried the DA top jockey with XTR chain and it was rough and noisy. I've seen some alloy jockeys with taller teeth but suspect they'd be noisy like the DA.
What do people think?

[nycebo]

Try the original chain with those jockey wheels. I switched back from the 12-speed shimano mountain bike chain as a test and was very pleased. Quiet and better shifting. For my part, it's the upper toothed jockey wheel that was the cause of the noise.

[jverdeyen]

I have brand new Specialized SL7 with DA 9150 groupset, all default.
The first week (500km) it wasn't noisy (degreased a bit of the factory lube).
After cleaning (fully degreased chain) it's realy noisy...
Played with the b-tension screw, but no result. I only gets noisy on load (+200 watts fe).

Shifting goes cripsy and fast. lbs says it's all ok.
I should try some oversized jockey wheels... sad to say, on a brand new bike.

[aeroisnteverything]

I put in C-Bear OCM jockey wheels into the stock derailleur hanger on my Venge and this has quited things down substantially, back to levels of noise consistent with the previous generation Ultegra I had on my older bike. This has now been tested with both Dura Ace and KMC chains, both waxed. Shifting quality has been entirely unaffected. I also have the Shimano 12-speed chain, but I have not installed it yet and at this stage will wait until my current set of chains wears out, since the noise issue is solved.

[jverdeyen]

I put in C-Bear OCM jockey wheels into the stock derailleur hanger on my Venge and this has quited things down substantially, back to levels of noise consistent with the previous generation Ultegra I had on my older bike. This has now been tested with both Dura Ace and KMC chains, both waxed. Shifting quality has been entirely unaffected. I also have the Shimano 12-speed chain, but I have not installed it yet and at this stage will wait until my current set of chains wears out, since the noise issue is solved.

Where did u ordered them? Keep the original chain length?

[aeroisnteverything]

Ordered directly from C-bear (email+paypal), mainly because I wanted red inserts instead of green that they usually come with. You can find resellers online as well, just google.

I kept the same chain length, and it works in all gears. I think optimally I need to add a couple of links to it, but as with the 12-speed chain, this will wait until current chains wear out.

[Pato]

I tried the XTR 12sp chain as recommended here and it was a game changer, never had such a smooth and silent drivetrain.
Using it with Sram red etap (11sp) and XG1190 though, which was actually noisier than DA DI2 9150. Will try with DA as soon as the current chain hits 3K.

[Omiar]

Im running full Di2 R8xxx groupset with R9100 crankset and have had the following issues. Im not a picky person but I ride mainly alone, so all the noise my bike makes is audible and hearing some mechanical noise 3-4h is irritating.

Noisy chain (HG701) - using Muc-Off dry teflon lube. Lube just wore off too quickly, after 40km it was starting to become noisy and after 60km it was irritating.

Switched to Shimano mineral lube. It was better but sometimes still noisy. Due to how I service my bike and how I transport it in my car, I found that the lube must be applied the day before you ride. So now I always service my bike after riding it, to be ready for the nexy day or ride. After working that out both HG701 and HG901 chains are silent.

Sihfting issues - in my case the RD missed shifts occasionally or was lazy to shift, mostly on upshifts in the middle of casssette. If you think everything is correct, it's not. I had too long chain and it was a matter of 2 or 3 links. You run into this issue if you use the small chaing, small sprocket combo when determing the lenght of new chain. Now I use large-large combo and it's easier to get the lenght right.

Now I understand such radical looking RD positions and shortest possible chaing lenght as here

[tigradekat]

Sihfting issues - in my case the RD missed shifts occasionally or was lazy to shift, mostly on upshifts in the middle of casssette. If you think everything is correct, it's not. I had too long chain and it was a matter of 2 or 3 links. You run into this issue if you use the small chaing, small sprocket combo when determing the lenght of new chain. Now I use large-large combo and it's easier to get the lenght right.

Now I understand such radical looking RD positions and shortest possible chaing lenght as here

How can you end up with too long a chain when you size it on the smal-small combo? It's exactly this method that prevents this? If you size your chain so that there is just a little tension on the RD cage, the chain has the maximum usable length, independent of the cassette used (within the range capability of the RD) which should result in the quietest system, especially in big-big gear ratios.

[LanceLegstrong]

After reading through this thread and looking at different pulley wheels, I had a question that I didn't see answered. What's the difference between the teeth height? The Ultegra pulley wheel set have short bottom but tall top. The XTR (and XT) MTB pulley wheel set is also short bottom but tall top. But the Dura Ace is short/short. So at first I thought it was different for MTB and road, but it looks to be just tthe Dura Ace that is short/short. And for third party options, they look to be varied, with some being short/short, some tall/tall, and some short bottom tall top. What's the difference? And does this affect the noise? Does the short vs tall upper pulley wheel affect shifting quality and/or speed?


https://www.competitivecyclist.com/shim ... tab-weight

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/shim ... EwMDQ3Mw==

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/shim ... tab-weight

[aeroisnteverything]

After reading through this thread and looking at different pulley wheels, I had a question that I didn't see answered. What's the difference between the teeth height? The Ultegra pulley wheel set have short bottom but tall top. The XTR (and XT) MTB pulley wheel set is also short bottom but tall top. But the Dura Ace is short/short. So at first I thought it was different for MTB and road, but it looks to be just tthe Dura Ace that is short/short. And for third party options, they look to be varied, with some being short/short, some tall/tall, and some short bottom tall top. What's the difference? And does this affect the noise? Does the short vs tall upper pulley wheel affect shifting quality and/or speed?


https://www.competitivecyclist.com/shim ... tab-weight

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/shim ... EwMDQ3Mw==

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/shim ... tab-weight

I think it's quite likely that that the culprit for the noise is the upper pulley wheel with the taller sharp teeth. It seems that a 12-speed chain indirectly addresses the issue, but for whatever reason the combination of an 11 speed chain and those pulleys produces noise. Now, you gotta be careful when you are replacing a pulley wheel - there was one post above saying that the shallower and rounder teeth profile, like the last-gen Ultegra and DA, made shifting worse. But if you increase the size of the pulley, tooth profile will not affect shifting anymore, and if the pulley wheel is good quality and does not wobble on the axis, shifting will remain crisp and quick.

To sum up, if you want a quiet DA drivetrain, the options seem to be:
1) replace stock pulleys with a larger third party set that fits into the stock cage; or
2) replace the whole cage for an OSPW; and/or
3) use a 12-speed XTR chain.

[mike]

Use a campy chain and original pulleys. Do not go ospw as it will make matters worse

[OlivierB73200]

Ordered directly from C-bear (email+paypal), mainly because I wanted red inserts instead of green that they usually come with. You can find resellers online as well, just google.

I kept the same chain length, and it works in all gears. I think optimally I need to add a couple of links to it, but as with the 12-speed chain, this will wait until current chains wear out.

Just checking in on your C-Bear pulley replacement. I have the samenoise issue with the stock pulleys as everybody else here in the forum, but want to avoid using a 12 speed chain if possible (to avoid the reported front shifting issues). I am interested in going for the C-Bear oversized pulleys as replacement for the stock Shimano ones. Did it fully solve the noise problem for you and how have the pulleys been working with the derailleur over time?

[OlivierB73200]

In a word: SUCCESS!!! Dead Silent!

So what did I do? I followed ALL of the recommendations in the most very recent posts. Thanks mightily to Ryanw. Alas, since I swapped out each item at the same time, you'll have to pick and choose what might work best for you depending on your setup.

Here's exactly what I did, step by step:

First, I removed the old components from the drivetrain (which as a reminder were noisy from new and just got noiser):
-threw out old Shimano XTR/Dura-Ace 11-speed chain (CN-HG901)
-threw out old Shimano Ultegra 11-speed cassette 11-30t (CS-R8000)

Second, I removed the rear mech and verified that the rear mech hanger was dead straight. I was off by no more than 1-2 mm in each direction (seemingly acceptable to me) but I straightened it to dead perfect for posterity.

Third, I cleaned the rear mech thoroughly and:
-threw out the OEM jockey wheels (well, I actually saved them in my toolkit)

Fourth, I installed a new rear cassette, paying a premium for the Dura Ace over Ultegra:
-Shimano Dura-Ace 11-speed cassette 12-28t (CS-R9100)

Fifth, I installed new oversized jockey wheels. I realize that there is some debate as to their efficacy and value. However, there is no denying that the upper jockey wheel that I purchased did NOT have the longer teeth inherent to the OEM Shimano jockey wheel. Despite Ryanw's caution, I went with:
-Kogel Gen 2 12/14T oversized derailleur pulleys for Shimano Dura Ace R9100 (PUL-1214-9100-R) and they look every bit the kit

Sixth, and this will likely receive the most pushback, but on Beaver's and Steffen's recommendations, I decided to try a narrower 12-speed chain instead of the stock Dura-Ace one:
-Shimano XTR M9100 12-speed chain

Some comments on installation:
-Everything cranked down to torque spec
-Chain length determined using the big-big method plus 2 links as per Kogel's recommendation for oversized jockey wheels. For my part, I think I could have used 3 but 4 seemed way too long, so 2 it is. I do not ride cross-chained on big-big anyway so no big deal.
-Upon completion of installation, I re-optimized my Di2 using the E-tube software

The result after my first ride yesterday was miraculous. The bike is dead silent. It is quieter than any of the bikes in my quiver and was definitely quieter than any of the bikes of the guys with whom I ride. Just splendid. Very pleased with the end result.

Now, some further comments on ride and parting thoughts:
-Shifting is very good. I have not noticed a difference in performance. However, as a preliminary precaution, I am not shifting under full load. I'm taking it easy with the new chain since I'm still unsure of using the full mountain bike chain with Dura Ace. I posted a new thread on WW to see what other's think about the chain (does it have a different tooth/gap/pattern?). Consequently, I am entertaining the notion of swapping to the KMC DLC12 just to be safe.
-However, I think that the narrower chain is really the solution. As per Beaver's photo, my chain is absolutely not touching the adjoining cogs when in gear. There is NO grinding.
-Lastly, some people commented about the use of metal jockey wheels instead of the "plastic" OEMs and their impact on noise. There is no difference, other than the teeth. The Kogels are dead silent and look cool. Pricey as hell for what they are, though.

And that's that. Hopefully, this helps sort fellow sufferers out. The noise really detracted from the good experience. If I were short on cash and had to do it over again, I'd just do the following:
1. Make sure rear mech hanger dead straight.
2. Swap OEM pulley wheels for Kogel or J&L 12/14t ($20 on eBay)
3. Use a narrow 12-speed chain. Might not last as long but worth it for piece of mind.

Good luck fellas.

Hi,

I have the same problem as everybody else here. Loud noise on DA 9150 at the pulley level when on the big chainring. The entire drivetrain is Shimano DA 9150 (52-36, 11-30) on a Tarmac SL6 with Roval CLX50s. I read everything here and it looks like the best option is to swap the stock pulleys for oversized ones. Per your suggestion, I ordered the J & L ones from eBay, but after reading some poor reviews here and there, I was also considering getting the Kogels 12/14 for peace of mind (and feeling safe on the bike). Just reaching out to you to confirm that the Kogels Gen 2 12/14 did solve the noise problem, and that shifting remained crisp. Would you suggest it is worth the $$$ investment. What 's your long-term impression of the pulleys?

Thanks for your input

[aeroisnteverything]

Ordered directly from C-bear (email+paypal), mainly because I wanted red inserts instead of green that they usually come with. You can find resellers online as well, just google.

I kept the same chain length, and it works in all gears. I think optimally I need to add a couple of links to it, but as with the 12-speed chain, this will wait until current chains wear out.

Just checking in on your C-Bear pulley replacement. I have the samenoise issue with the stock pulleys as everybody else here in the forum, but want to avoid using a 12 speed chain if possible (to avoid the reported front shifting issues). I am interested in going for the C-Bear oversized pulleys as replacement for the stock Shimano ones. Did it fully solve the noise problem for you and how have the pulleys been working with the derailleur over time?

Yep, no issues - more than a year on now, and considerably more than 10k miles. Pulley wheel still spin like crazy, and the drivetrain is quiet. I kept on using the 11 speed KMC SL chains. Did not like the shifting with the 12-sp.