Dura Ace 9100/9150 noisier than 9000!

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jlok
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by jlok

CallumRD1 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:21 pm
In my case it's the 4th cog, counting from largest down, i.e. the 22t on my 11-32. I do have the chain on the correct way, Shimano Ultegra 8050 FD and RD (mid cage but with a little b tension to clear the 32t cog), Shimano Ultegra 8000 compact crankset, Shimano Ultegra 6800 11-32 cassette, Shimano CN-HG701 Ultegra 11 speed chain. It is interesting that the noise is dependent on both the chainring and cog choice. I wonder if this has to do with both the chainring/cassette tooth profiles and the chain tension created by the rear derailleur. That could potentially help to explain why there is less noise in the small chainring than the big at a given road speed (less overall chain tension).

Edit: I'm on a Felt F3x cyclocross bike in size 57 cm which has a 430 mm chainstay length.
I have similar observation on my new Propel Adv SL Disc 1 8070. I set the RD guide pulley 5mm from cassette, adjusted RD indexing at the 5th as suggested by manual.

Chain is KMC SL while chainrings are R9100 5034.

I suspect the new cassette (mine is 1128) is noisier than the older models, plus the RD guide pulley profile and the RD tension also contributed to the noise. I'd just take it and regard as non-issue right now.

btw R8050 shifts swiftly and feel very solid, love it.
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Kimmoth
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by Kimmoth

Another thing that's changed with the new groups is that the middle cogs are mounted on a resin carrier. Coincidence...?
spartan wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:39 pm
imho shimano took a step backward with the new design.
Speaking of which, has anyone been able to get both trim positions working on a toggle FD?

rsantos450
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by rsantos450

In my case is not the wear problem, my bike is new, 5 month, the ultegra is quieter than dura ace, change the chain, K7 and the problem of the noise is in the pulleys, would a bger pulleys kit solve this?
thanks

rmr40
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by rmr40

Same problem with 9150 - all new Shimano cassette, chain, mech etc - even tried a brand new Sram red cassette, no difference to the noise level.🤷‍♂️


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rlanger
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by rlanger

I too am experiencing some noise only when in the big ring and only on the five largest cogs on the cassette.

Every component is new: 9150 derailleurs with an 11-30 8000 cassette and a DA chain.

Small ring is silent.

Overall, not really bothered by it, as it's not too bad. The perfect shifting experience really makes up for it. I absolutely love DA Di2 as it's a huge step up from my previous Ultegra 6800 mechanical group set.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Kimmoth wrote:... has anyone been able to get both trim positions working on a toggle FD?
Yes, trim positions is about set up. Not a problem. When you say a “toggle” FD I’m assuming you just mean mechanical, vs Di2.

For you guys with the noise, could you post two pics of your setups with the chain on Big/big and small/small (or smallest you can get to with Di2). Trying to get a feel to see if there’s a common setup issue going on. Firstly however, I’m going to assume that you’ve all actually confirmed, with a proper hanger alignment tool, that your hangers are straight, solid, and not loosely attached (hanger bolts coming loose).
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Nhmountainman
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by Nhmountainman

Dura Ace 9120, all items Dura Ace, brand new. Notice the same...quieter smaller front ring, noisier big ring (52/36) and 11-30 rear. Not bothersome, just noticeable. I oil my chain more often now...keeps the noise down.
Last edited by Nhmountainman on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

madonna
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by madonna

Yes, I had the same noisy issue with DA9100 and I cannot figure it out. My guess might be the pulley or spring. However shifting is still very precise and fast.

Boshk
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by Boshk

rlanger wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:55 am
I too am experiencing some noise only when in the big ring and only on the five largest cogs on the cassette.

Every component is new: 9150 derailleurs with an 11-30 8000 cassette and a DA chain.

Small ring is silent.

Overall, not really bothered by it, as it's not too bad. The perfect shifting experience really makes up for it. I absolutely love DA Di2 as it's a huge step up from my previous Ultegra 6800 mechanical group set.
Exactly the same here. Switched to R8000 ultegra groupset with 11-32 since I was trying to mate my Campagnolo Chorus groupset with my Quarq powermeter which has DA R9100 rings.

In the small chainring, its pretty much silent except when cross-chained
In large chainring, on the 'hardest' four cogs, its noisy, 11-12-13-14.....but its silent at the top except for chain rub on the 32 cog

Also, does anyone understand the official R8000 RD installation/adjust, specifically the SIS adjustment? page 19,20,21
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RARD001-02-ENG.pdf

page19: "The best setting is when the shifting
lever is operated just enough to close the
lever gap and the chain touches the 3rd
sprocket counting from the smallest
sprocket and makes noise."

The only way I can do this is hold the lever a tiny bit, then its grinding like crazy....

page 21 is the weirdest....talks about no sound/noise when you are in second cog......surely thats what everyone is after

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Kimmoth
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by Kimmoth

Calnago wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:53 pm
Kimmoth wrote:... has anyone been able to get both trim positions working on a toggle FD?
Yes, trim positions is about set up. Not a problem. When you say a “toggle” FD I’m assuming you just mean mechanical, vs Di2.
I mean the latest mechanical design, with the little cover and the tension adjustment. Toggle is Shimano's name for the design. I have no problem setting up Di2.

The previous one was a bit stupid because the inboard trim position only worked if the cable came from far enough to the left of the BB; anywhere near the centre and it just didn't have any leverage over the initial part of the throw and trim position on the small ring would be ineffective. God help you if the cable comes from the right side of the BB...

And the current one is really half-baked, if you ask me. The adjustment jams and mashes the cable, and if you use the alignment mark to set the trim position on the big ring as intended, the small ring trim position does nothing, at least on the dozen or so examples I've come across. Which is a pity, because it employed a couple of pretty neat ideas to improve the thing; I hope they fix it. They always used to make effective FDs until 11s, and Di2 front shifting is the bomb.

Maybe they're giving up on cross-chaining in the small ring though, if what happens with the latest Di2 on compact rings is any guide...

jlok
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by jlok

Kimmoth wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:36 pm
Maybe they're giving up on cross-chaining in the small ring though, if what happens with the latest Di2 on compact rings is any guide...
Cross chain is bad, let’s prohibit it altogether. No problem to solve anymore.
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dim
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by dim

so, for mechanical, it seems that the DA 9000 is the best?
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Kimmoth
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by Kimmoth

jlok wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:56 pm
Cross chain is bad, let’s prohibit it altogether. No problem to solve anymore.
It's hardly the end of the world, and sometimes it just makes sense if you only want the gear briefly, or maybe you've just lost track of what gear you're in. It's bad if the chain is snagging the lift pins though, no argument there... I'd rather be rubbing the cage in that case, as long as it's steel.

zmjones
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by zmjones

i have a 105 5800 gs rd mated to a new r8000 11-32 and it is also noticeably noisier than the 105 5800 11-32 it replaced.

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wheelbuilder
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by wheelbuilder

The ability for a toggle FD to have both low trim and top trim exists in a very small area between too little and too much tension. Make very small adjustments and you will find it. The key I think is initiating the set-up with pretty high cable tension to begin with. Like on pretty much all Shimano front derailleurs. Grab the needle nose pliers and pull on that cable until the whole repair stand is lifting off the ground and tighten anchor bolt! I'm kidding, but only a little. It's important to have the toggle adjustment bolt backed out all the way when attaching cable and making sure the anchor plate turns clockwise and pushes the little plunger all the way in. This gives you ample adjustment room to get tension perfect. Do it til you have two trims and disregard where the stupid indicator hash mark is pointing.
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