Shimano R9100-P Powermeter

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mds
Posts: 199
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by mds

kwakekeham wrote:That breakdown is interesting.

There are 4 power pages in ANT+. Basic (everyone, mandatory), Crank Torque (cranks, arms, pedals), Wheel Torque (Powertap hub only) and Crank Torque Frequency (SRM only). Everyone must have at a minimum basic pages, and almost all use 1 of the 3 others with every 4th page is basic to maintain backwards compatibility with simpler head units -- least that was the idea. Basic pages are also the only place balance is found. It's a violation of ANT+ spec to include multiple option pages and it wouldn't have certified. So 1 + basic.

So based on what has been shown so far I would guess that the Shimano uses Crank Torque pages. Since SRM only has to deal with Crank Torque Frequency in their own products, when connecting another meter it's likely dropping back to Basic pages. I don't have a PC8 so can't check.

The possibility is that either the Shimano PM is not encoding basic pages properly or the SRM head unit is not decoding them correctly.

Also, when testing, what a Garmin records is NOT what it displays. They have different requirements. The specific example the Garmin Edge engineer used at the ANT+ symposium a few years ago when I was there was to imagine going down a hill and you stop pedaling, when you look down you want to see what your cadence was not zero -- so it holds it for a few seconds even though it knows the data is stagnant and not changing. What is displayed in all Garmin head units is filtered, what is recorded on the newer (510/810 and newer) follows good guidelines for proper recording.

These spikes should be easy to track down using the ANT+ development software because it can decode both pages unlike a head unit. My guess is the PM and not the SRM head unit. Likely escaped because nobody saw it in crank torque pages.

kwakekeham, I licensed the ANT+ Adopter SDK MacOS to log the raw ANT+ data stream from my FC-R9100-P, and now have more information concerning the 64sec power spike issue with my SRM PC8. My plan is to document and forward my analysis to Shimano and SRM within a few days.

FYI, FC-R9100-P acts as an ANT+ Power-Only Sensor, and exclusively uses the ANT+ Standard Power-Only Main Data Page at ~2Hz to encode power, cadence, and pedal contributions.

FC-R9100-P also transmits the required Common Data Pages and several Optional Data Pages.
Last edited by mds on Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:25 am, edited 4 times in total.
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mds
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: California

by mds

cunn1n9 wrote:
mds wrote:Is anyone doing a zero offset with a Garmin? When I do this, I always see an offset of 5050, no matter the temperature. I expected the offset to vary a little bit (like my previous SRM 7900 PowerMeter did), but the value reported by the Garmin is always the same. Is this expected? (The LED on the Shimano does blink, so I do know that the zero offset is actually happening.)


Just do it with the button on the crank. So much easier.


My reason to use the head is to see the offset value. As I mentioned, I always see 5050.

Suppose I were to stand on one or both pedals at 3/9 o'clock and do a zero-offset. Would I still see 5050?
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TurboKoo
Posts: 445
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:55 pm

by TurboKoo

I haven't tried but I'd say you can't get zero-offset to go through like that. Right side pedal needs to be pointing down.
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Shimano 9150
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charmette1261
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:36 am
Location: France

by charmette1261

i have problem with E tube application.
When i connect 9100P when i touch screen to tape the key, the app crashes ....

Have you ever have this problem ?

Because the firmware of my crankset is 0.1 and value of offset are same 15000 and 25000, so no calibration during ride....

Thanks for help, sorry for my poor english....

TurboKoo
Posts: 445
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by TurboKoo

Have you checked the manual from si.shimano.com?
You can have this also in your own language.
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFC002-00-ENG.pdf

You should try hard reset by holding button for 15 seconds.
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Shimano 9150
Shimano FCR-9100-P
Shimano C60 tubulars

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charmette1261
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:36 am
Location: France

by charmette1261

TurboKoo wrote:Have you checked the manual from si.shimano.com?
You can have this also in your own language.
http://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFC002-00-ENG.pdf

You should try hard reset by holding button for 15 seconds.
No work ...

mds
Posts: 199
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Location: California

by mds

charmette1261 wrote:No work ...
I also see a fixed offset when calibrating, but the LED does blink. So I think calibration is working, but Shimano seems to always report the same number.

Regaring the E-tube app crash, you probably should check with your dealer.

Another option is to try the 15 second button reset with the R9100-P battery recharge cable attached and charging.
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yjymb
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:56 pm

by yjymb

mds wrote:Is anyone doing a zero offset with a Garmin? When I do this, I always see an offset of 5050, no matter the temperature. I expected the offset to vary a little bit (like my previous SRM 7900 PowerMeter did), but the value reported by the Garmin is always the same. Is this expected? (The LED on the Shimano does blink, so I do know that the zero offset is actually happening.)

I exactly have a same issue!!! I always get 5050!!!
I think that this value is not a adc value.
5050 means code combine of left right sensors,
Maybe, 50 means ready to ride or calibration complete.
First 50 is for left arm, sexond 50 is for right arm

mds
Posts: 199
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by mds

PinaF8 wrote:I also have spikes when I pair my pc8 to my Tacx Neo trainer. Not too worried about it as it never affect my avg during interval trainings.
I also see spikes with PC8 and my new Tacx Neo. The raw ANT+ data streams (captured using the ANT+ SDK) from both Neo and R9100-P are clean. The problem is definitely with the PC8.
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PinaF8
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by PinaF8

mds wrote:
PinaF8 wrote:I also have spikes when I pair my pc8 to my Tacx Neo trainer. Not too worried about it as it never affect my avg during interval trainings.
I also see spikes with PC8 and my new Tacx Neo. The raw ANT+ data streams (captured using the ANT+ SDK) from both Neo and R9100-P are clean. The problem is definitely with the PC8.
Perfectly fine when running both SrM powermeter and Pc8 together. I think you should just ditch the pc8 if you’re not pairing to an SrM.
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mds
Posts: 199
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by mds

PinaF8 wrote:Perfectly fine when running both SrM powermeter and Pc8 together. I think you should just ditch the pc8 if you’re not pairing to an SrM.
Yes, I agree. I did ask SRM for a fix, but honestly given my conversations I think a fix is not likely.
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ms6073
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by ms6073

mds wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:02 am
I also see spikes with PC8 and my new Tacx Neo.
FYI - Tacx has just published another firmware update for the Neo which seems to be related: Tacx Neo Owners Group is on Facebook

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mds
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:28 pm
Location: California

by mds

ms6073 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:48 pm
FYI - Tacx has just published another firmware update for the Neo which seems to be related:
Not related. PC8 power spikes appear with this new Tacx firmware. The problem is PC8 not Neo.
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mds
Posts: 199
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by mds

Six WorldTour teams are confirmed to ride with the Shimano Dura-Ace R9100-P power meters for the 2018 season.

FDJ, BMC Racing, Trek-Segafredo, Orica-Scott, Team Sky, and Team Sunweb.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/shimano ... n-in-2018/
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spartan
Posts: 1135
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

soon game over for SRM overpriced white elephant. bye bye.

street price of these will be 1k USD in six months. how long for a ultegra version in 2019?
Current Rides:

2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

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