Why no love for direct mount rim brake?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Torchy
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:23 pm

by Torchy

I love my direct mount brakes on my Canyon Aeroad - serious stopping power!

by Weenie


nestornnk
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:44 pm
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by nestornnk

Direct mount brakes on the C60 is an option now.
You can order one with DM without any extra charge or lead time.

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rossjm11
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:09 pm

by rossjm11

I really like them, although I don't own them, yet
BMC SLR01 2015
Redline Conquest Team

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I posted sort of the same thing when the topic came up in a Colnago related thread but probably should have more appropriately posted it here....

Do you see any advantage to the DM brakes, say Shimano latest DM brakes compared to Shimanos latest 9100 standard mount brakes?

- Clearance?... Not really. If clearance was really an issue and you want to run 30mm+ tires (28's fit just fine under the standard mount 9100 calipers), I would think you'd want disc brakes over either standard or DM rim brakes.

- Stiffness: After installing a few 9100 standard mount calipers, I can't see great gains being made there from DM brakes, at least not any that would make one bit of difference. The standard mounts are very very stiff. I don't think any more would be a noticeable improvement in performance.

- Simplicity: Nothing is as simple to install and maintain as a standard mount dual pivot caliper. There are some that say the standard mount calipers are more prone to getting knocked off center. I have to wonder if those calipers are properly torqued to the frame. I tried moving my calipers off center, and it is not easy. A simple knock of the wheel during removal and install would not do this for sure. In any case, that has certainly never been an issue for my bikes. So for Shimano: 8-10Nm, Campagnolo: 10-12Nm. Check it. With a torque wrench. Then see how easy they get knocked off center.

I'm just having a really tough time seeing any actual real benefit to a DM brake, over the current crop of Standard mount brakes (especially the Shimano 9100). I think the brake choice these days is really between rim calipers or discs, and for the rim brakes I think I'm still preferring the standard mounts given some of the convoluted contraptions I've seen in the direct mount space... so ugly and unrefined looking and in some cases, much more finicky to set up.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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WinterRider
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

I suggested some yrs ago on another channel the brake be moved in that position.. yet the tire surface used as braking friction. Course all the 'queens' went for 'spoon brake' reference. No.. simple HYDRAULIC lever that sent against tire surface. No pad to soil... come home and take the hose to it... no fuss. No rim interference setting the tire in either.

But.. I have a few ideas that don't pan out... :mrgreen:

Oh.. I imagined a roller.. the more tension the less the roller would ride along the tire surface. Disc brake like.. using tire.

Lieblingsleguan
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm

by Lieblingsleguan

Calnago wrote:I posted sort of the same thing when the topic came up in a Colnago related thread but probably should have more appropriately posted it here....

Do you see any advantage to the DM brakes, say Shimano latest DM brakes compared to Shimanos latest 9100 standard mount brakes?

- Clearance?... Not really. If clearance was really an issue and you want to run 30mm+ tires (28's fit just fine under the standard mount 9100 calipers), I would think you'd want disc brakes over either standard or DM rim brakes.

- Stiffness: After installing a few 9100 standard mount calipers, I can't see great gains being made there from DM brakes, at least not any that would make one bit of difference. The standard mounts are very very stiff. I don't think any more would be a noticeable improvement in performance.

- Simplicity: Nothing is as simple to install and maintain as a standard mount dual pivot caliper. There are some that say the standard mount calipers are more prone to getting knocked off center. I have to wonder if those calipers are properly torqued to the frame. I tried moving my calipers off center, and it is not easy. A simple knock of the wheel during removal and install would not do this for sure. In any case, that has certainly never been an issue for my bikes. So for Shimano: 8-10Nm, Campagnolo: 10-12Nm. Check it. With a torque wrench. Then see how easy they get knocked off center.

I'm just having a really tough time seeing any actual real benefit to a DM brake, over the current crop of Standard mount brakes (especially the Shimano 9100). I think the brake choice these days is really between rim calipers or discs, and for the rim brakes I think I'm still preferring the standard mounts given some of the convoluted contraptions I've seen in the direct mount space... so ugly and unrefined looking and in some cases, much more finicky to set up.

Have you used DM Brakes yourself? Determining whether they are stiffer by looking at them isn't the best method.

I have not used them, ordered a Transonic frameset this week. If there is no advantage, well, I won't be sad. I'll be happy if they just perform as well as current single mount brakes.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Haven't used them, but certainly done more than just look at them. I've yanked and pushed and yelled at them while mounted. I've just been comparing to Shimano 9100 as the standard right now, which I own, have used and ridden. The 9100 standard mount calipers are very stiff under the yanking and pushing test (haven't yelled at them yet). But yes, as you suggest, there is nothing to be wanting for stiffness in the current 9100 standard mounts, so any more, if there in fact is, will kind of be moot don't you think. Plus, some of the stiffness with DM mounts will definitely be a function of the seat stays on the frame itself. A little bit like when mountain bikes had cantilever brakes etc and brake boosters between the bosses of the forks and stays were installed to prevent the forks and seatstays from splaying out when the brakes were applied. The new standard mount 9100 calipers have little "brake boosters" built in. Some frames for DM brakes still have full bridges going across from stay to stay, but not all. In those cases, the brake itself would have to have some serious support in between to achieve the same stiffness.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Lieblingsleguan
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm

by Lieblingsleguan

What combination would you guys use with a SRAM Red22 groupset, DA 9100? Is there any better combination? DA 9000 DM brakes seem hard to come by already; EEs are too expensive for my liking. Campa dm brake is quite heavy, as is the offering by TRP. Any other possibilities?

The brakes are for my newly acquired Fuji Transonic frameset, so no brake under the chainstay, "normal" direct mount brake front and rear.

bilwit
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

Lieblingsleguan wrote:What combination would you guys use with a SRAM Red22 groupset, DA 9100? Is there any better combination? DA 9000 DM brakes seem hard to come by already; EEs are too expensive for my liking. Campa dm brake is quite heavy, as is the offering by TRP. Any other possibilities?

The brakes are for my newly acquired Fuji Transonic frameset, so no brake under the chainstay, "normal" direct mount brake front and rear.


you can get them for cheap ($170USD) on ebay from reputable sellers

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

The 9000 DM brakes are actually lighter than the 9100 DM brakes. I have the 9000 DM brakes on my Transonic frame.


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Lieblingsleguan
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm

by Lieblingsleguan

I am based in Germany, so US eBay sellers don't help unfortunately. I actually can't find the rear brake that I want (Shimano BR-9010RS).
I will probably go with Ultegra BR-6810 then which are a lot cheaper than BR-9110 compared to the extra weight they come with.

NGtim
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:27 am

by NGtim

DM is a game changer. They came standard on my Canyon Aeroad and solved the issue of having to adjust my brakes all the time. 6000km's in now and I haven't had to touch them once.

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mpulsiv
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

pdlpsher1 wrote:The 9000 DM brakes are actually lighter than the 9100 DM brakes. I have the 9000 DM brakes on my Transonic frame.


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What's the weight of your 9000 DM? My standard are 150 grams (front) + 144 grams (rear).
Last edited by mpulsiv on Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ginsterdrz
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:16 pm

by Ginsterdrz

I rode DA DM for a whole Race season and also trained on the bike in wet and dry conditions.

My opinion: I didn't really notice any difference in the real world.

It requires another hole/mounting point in a bikes fork and rear stay for manufacturers to mess up or misalign when one hole works just fine.

I notice that some MTB manufacturers have gone back to screw in BB......new isn't always best!

by Weenie


Hexsense
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

pdlpsher1 wrote:The 9000 DM brakes are actually lighter than the 9100 DM brakes. I have the 9000 DM brakes on my Transonic frame.


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did you notice anything better in 9110-F?
like power for wide rim or clearance?

I move away from 9010-F because on very wide rim (28mm) Dura-ace brake seems to lose some of their magical braking performance. Bontrager Speedstop seems to brake equal or better. I wonder if 9100 is still the same (plus heavier)

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