Real world use of ZIpp 404 firecrest - I am struggling. Advice req.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
weaponsgrade
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:21 am

by weaponsgrade

I can't speak to the 404s, but I have 303 tubular Firecrests. They definitely made the steering feel a lot lighter. It made descending at high speeds very sketchy. I got used to it after a few rides and feel comfortable enough to hit upwards of 40mph if conditions allow. Still, the heavier alloys I had on before seem more stable on high speed descents. It can get pretty windy where I ride, but I think the 303s have handled cross winds well as compared to the alloys I had before which had a lower profile.

by Weenie


diegogarcia
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

weaponsgrade wrote:I can't speak to the 404s, but I have 303 tubular Firecrests. They definitely made the steering feel a lot lighter. It made descending at high speeds very sketchy. I got used to it after a few rides and feel comfortable enough to hit upwards of 40mph if conditions allow. Still, the heavier alloys I had on before seem more stable on high speed descents. It can get pretty windy where I ride, but I think the 303s have handled cross winds well as compared to the alloys I had before which had a lower profile.


OK thanks. I hear you. Sometimes, it is wise to offset with a slightly heavier wheel / wheelset all things being equal ...

KarlC
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:08 am
Location: San Diego Ca USA

by KarlC

diegogarcia read some reviews on the Reynolds 58 Aero wheels, like the below ......

http://www.downtownmagazinenyc.com/reyn ... onditions/

https://www.wired.com/2012/12/reynolds-aero-wheelset/


Lots more reviews posted here .....

https://www.reynoldscycling.com/wheels/58-Aero

You can buy a set of these wheels used for pretty cheep, if they don't work as well in Windy Conditions as the reviews say then sell them off and get your money back.

RyanH
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by RyanH

FWIW, my 968g Reynolds RZRs were rock solid descending up to 60mph (never got a chance to go above that), so I don't think it's a weight thing as the 404s were half a kilo heavier. I find my 1080g ThirtyTwos slightly better than the 1280g FortySix's since they're 13mm shallower depth and barely catch any wind. My Bora 35s have to be the best handling (cornering) wheels I've ever used BUT, in a straight line they seem a little "twitchier" than the Reynolds (it's very slight). I'm not sure why.
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

KarlC
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:08 am
Location: San Diego Ca USA

by KarlC

RyanH wrote:FWIW, my 968g Reynolds RZRs were rock solid descending up to 60mph (never got a chance to go above that), so I don't think it's a weight thing as the 404s were half a kilo heavier. I find my 1080g ThirtyTwos slightly better than the 1280g FortySix's since they're 13mm shallower depth and barely catch any wind. My Bora 35s have to be the best handling (cornering) wheels I've ever used BUT, in a straight line they seem a little "twitchier" than the Reynolds (it's very slight). I'm not sure why.


RyanH have you ever had a set of Reynolds DV46T UL ?

I got a nice set for dirt cheep and plan to put them on my Colnago X-Light soon.

At under 1100 grams for these 46mm Tubular they seem like a hard wheel to beat for an around cheep 2nd hang light weight
wheel.

From Reynolds Catalog.... https://reynoldscycling.com/uploads/Rey ... inal03.pdf


Precision technology in a tubular carbon wheelset, designed and built to meet the requirements of the most demanding competitors, including European pro teams Agritubel and Volksbank. The DV46T UL offers our exclusive, Ultralight (UL), high modulus, unidirectional carbon construction in an aggressive, deep-V profile for incomparable lateral stiffness, strength and reduced weight. The aerodynamic profile balances stability across the flats in a crosswind, with explosive response in and out of the hairpins on a fast crit. And braking is sure, smooth and quiet–better than a standard carbon layup wheel–because the UL technology disperses heat with 17% greater efficiency. The DV46T UL is just as ideal for tempo riding as it is on a solo breakaway

Construction: Ultralight (UL) high modulus carbon
Rim Depth: 46mm
Spoke Patterns: 20/24
Weight: 1040 g per set
Hubs: Reynolds DT Swiss 240S HYB
Spokes FRONT:(Radial) DT Aerolite REAR:(Radial, 2x Drive) DT Aerolite and DT Competition
Brake Pads: Reynolds Carbon-Specific De
Last edited by KarlC on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

RyanH
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by RyanH

I had 2010 DV46s and put about 20K miles on them. I wasn't sure if they were ULs or not but they were under 1200g with the 180 freehub. They're really good wheels but braking is poor by today's standards. The FortySix's go for a couple hundred more and are 1280g with a 240s freehub. Much better braking on them. I find that those two Reynolds feel the best of all the wheels I've had when throwing the bike around since they don't seem to flex at all even when the bike is angled. They ride a bit harsh though compared to the Zipps, ThirtyTwos and RZRs. The Zipps were probably the most comfortable wheels I've used (like 23mm vs 25mm difference to the other wheels), which was disappointing since they were so poor in crosswinds and downhill.
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

KarlC
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:08 am
Location: San Diego Ca USA

by KarlC

RyanH wrote:I had 2010 DV46s and put about 20K miles on them. I wasn't sure if they were ULs or not but they were under 1200g with the 180 freehub. They're really good wheels but braking is poor by today's standards. The FortySix's go for a couple hundred more and are 1280g with a 240s freehub. Much better braking on them. I find that those two Reynolds feel the best of all the wheels I've had when throwing the bike around since they don't seem to flex at all even when the bike is angled. They ride a bit harsh though compared to the Zipps, ThirtyTwos and RZRs. The Zipps were probably the most comfortable wheels I've used (like 23mm vs 25mm difference to the other wheels), which was disappointing since they were so poor in crosswinds and downhill.


I just posted info from the Reynolds catalog, it says the DV46s have these hubs - Hubs: Reynolds DT Swiss 240S HYB

I thought the breaking might not be as good on the DV46T UL as more current wheels, but I plan to use the current Reynolds Cryo Blue Power Brake Pads so I am hoping they help.

As far as wheel comfort goes, I do notice that my Reynolds Aero 58 / 72 Tubular combo gives a bit of a harsher ride that my Zipp 404 firecrest tubular wheels. The Reynolds Aero 58 / 72 Tubular combo has less side to side flex so stiffer wheels = a stiffer ride ? Also the Reynolds is a 72mm back wheel VS the Zipp 404 58mm back wheel.

Both sets of wheels have the same tire on them with the same air pressure so that should not be to blame.

sawyer
Posts: 4498
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

202 front is a good call

Consider getting it in tubular format as it is safer

Otherwise just get some alloy clinchers and help build your confidence
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

jupis
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:27 am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

by jupis

I currently have Swiss Side Hadrons mix 485 front / 625 rear. My previous set was Mavic Cosmic Carbones SL and SLR. I was happy riding the Mavics but there is unbelievable difference how nicely the Hadrons behave in sidewinds and descents compared to Mavics (well not very long & fast descents here in southern Finland). Looks like modern fat profile makes a big difference.
Juha H >> Swim > Bike > Run

Denavelo
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 pm

by Denavelo

I would dump the 404FC and go for a set of Enve 4.5 wheels.
I've had so many sets of Carbon wheels and climbing/descending is all we do here in the LA Mountains.
We descend so much that people get tired of descending, if that makes any sense. Descedning for 20mi can get annoying, especially with the wind gusts....

I used to get blown like 1-2ft sideways on some windy days on my old Enve 45's, Zipp 404's etc.
Once I went to the 4.5, I get a tiny twitch and the wheel is back on line. I consider myself a pretty risky descender, but with control.
The 4.5 hands down is the best handling wheels I've ridden out of Reynolds DV46/Zipp 404.
Relaxing yourself and riding loose is key as well, and letting yourself adjust to the bike changes. Riding stiff and scary is never a good thing.
Speedvagen Road Machine "2011 Surprise me | Cannondale SuperSix Evo | Rob English "Mudfoot" 29er | Firefly Ti #419 | Kogswell 650b Rando | Crema Cycles "Duo"

diegogarcia
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:31 pm

by diegogarcia

To update this I ordered a 303 on Tuesday and was delivered Weds. Did 31 miles in windy conditions Saturday and again a solid 30 yesterday and have to say chalk and cheese to the 404 front. All subjective, but to me feels stiffer, more taut, the front handles better and certainly much much more stable in all winds, which yesterday was omni wind. More of a push then a correction rather than a constant threat / wobble. The 303 feels like an inherently better wheel on the front. So, a good decision and I am very happy with my decision and will run the 404 rear in combo with it until I deem a 303 within reach / required.

Johnnysmooth
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Beantown

by Johnnysmooth

diegogarcia wrote:To update this I ordered a 303 on Tuesday and was delivered Weds. Did 31 miles in windy conditions Saturday and again a solid 30 yesterday and have to say chalk and cheese to the 404 front. All subjective, but to me feels stiffer, more taut, the front handles better and certainly much much more stable in all winds, which yesterday was omni wind. More of a push then a correction rather than a constant threat / wobble. The 303 feels like an inherently better wheel on the front. So, a good decision and I am very happy with my decision and will run the 404 rear in combo with it until I deem a 303 within reach / required.


Good move
It only hurts if you think.

yongdaeok
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:40 am

by yongdaeok

haven't ridden every wheel but generally Zipp is considered towards the top in cross wind stability

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