RD-R9150 wheel removal issue

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
beanbiken
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

Hi, probably a stupid question with and obvious answer but as above I am having trouble removing and installing me rear wheel with the DA derailleur. The leaflet that came with the RD says to make sure you position the lever in the off position before wheel removal. For the life of me I cannot find any lever to lock.......... Is there something simple I am missing, any suggestions?

Steve
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

wingguy
Posts: 3743
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Sounds like the manual you have is referring to clutched MTB rear mechs. DA doesn't have a clutch, so no lever.

Edit: Yes, having looked at the manual it is a generic DI2 manual covering road and MTB mechs. The layout is confusing, but if you look again you'll see that the lever is referred to only in the section headed <In the case of MTB>.

by Weenie


beanbiken
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

Hmm thanks WG, yes the user manual is a bit confusing. So no lever I must be using the wrong technique. With the RD9070 never had an issue with the RD9150 just does not seem to have enough spare. The RD cage and the smallest cog foul together. Staring to chip the carbon on the cage.....
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

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Calnago
Posts: 5765
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Get used to it. It seems that's just how it is. I had the same issue as you. Wheel removal is not as easy as prior versions. A side effect of positioning the rear derailleur further inboard perhaps? I'll be doing another install in the next couple of weeks where I will have more time to play with it and fiddle with the idiosyncracies. it will be 9100 mechanical. Haven't decided if I like it more or less than 9000 yet. Personally, I don't need the mega cog size capacity, and I don't really like the "extension" of the rear derailleur hanger. We shall see how it plays over the next few months of use. The levers are very nice however.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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beanbiken
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

Bugger, was hoping it was just me missing something basic. Still have The RD9070 in the storage.......... may find it's way back on if this p##ses me off enough........... :roll:
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Well, I didn't really give it a thorough troubleshoot, and like you, thought it must be just me and that particular night. And maybe it was. But I'm starting to hear more people asking the same question so maybe it's not just us. I'll give the 9100 a good run through during the next install and really delve into just what's up with this. Maybe it's nothing more than just learning a new little "trick" or something.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 1852
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

I thought one of the advantages of the new RD was that it would make wheel removal easier?

beanbiken
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

BdaGhisallo wrote:I thought one of the advantages of the new RD was that it would make wheel removal easier?


Exactly............... but it would seem that I am not on my own experiencing the opposite :oops:
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

jwfinesse
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Location: NY

by jwfinesse

If you take a close look when you put the wheel back in, the direct mount piece (which mounts to the hanger) moves away from the derailleur hanger tab. Shimano specifically calls for that piece to rest on the hanger tab, so I had to loosen/re-tighten to get the RD installed back to spec. This is with 5NM to 8NM torque Shimano recommends when installing the RD. I tested both ends of the spectrum, and they moved away from the hanger tab no matter what.

I got irritated, so I started to look for what pro teams have done with 9150 RD.

I have Dogma F8 so I just looked for Team Sky for the obvious answer, as F10 shares the same RD hanger as F8. After taking a look at Team Sky's set up, I realized they have installed the RD with a gap between the hanger and the direct mount piece, despite what the Shimano manual says.

Image

This is the Shimano spec set-up

Image

and this is Kwiatkowski's F10 set-up.


Notice the noticeable difference in angles? If you can't see it, use two 5mm bolts as reference points. You will see that with Sky's setup, RD tilts quite a bit more toward the rear. It creates more 'space' for wheel to pop out. This makes wheel change a breeze, since there is no RD pivot spring to overcome.

Additionally, that kick toward rear from Sky's set-up made my chain tension problem with RD9150 disappear.

Overall, I am very disappointed with how RD9150 is designed, but I guess I have to make do with what i've got.

beanbiken
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

@jwfinesse thank you, is this what you have done also [the different angle]? I was looking at maybe shaving some excess material from the pulley cage but your "fix" is certainly easier. I guess I could get the angle right then make a plastic spacer block and glue tape it in place. That would be easy to reverse
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

jwfinesse
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Location: NY

by jwfinesse

beanbiken wrote:@jwfinesse thank you, is this what you have done also [the different angle]? I was looking at maybe shaving some excess material from the pulley cage but your "fix" is certainly easier. I guess I could get the angle right then make a plastic spacer block and glue tape it in place. That would be easy to reverse



Yeah, all I did was changing the angle of RD install.

What I did was:
1.Shift to small ring on the front, and 3rd smallest cog. (right at the cross chaining limit if you have 52/36 or 50/34)
2.With the chain tension bolt (on the back of the RD) all the way out, I manually tilted the RD backward until there was no slack in chain.
3.Holding RD in that position with my left hand, I torqued it to 8NM. This will give you enough space to make the wheel change easier.

It sounds your plastic 'stop' method would be more secure, but so far, my set-up didn't budge, so I might just stick with it for now.

beanbiken
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

Did the "plastic stopper" idea, just used a piece of thin plastic bent at 90 degrees and held in place with glue tape, heaps of room to drop the wheel out now. But while looking at it I can't see why I couldn't shave some of the material off the back of the "link" where the RD body contacts it as you lift the RD out of the way to drop your wheel out. That should let the RD sit in it's designed position in relation to the cassette.............. thoughts?
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1482
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

The only benefit I see with the 9150 is the direct mount. But it seems manufacturers are reluctant to make a direct mount hanger. Someone here did mention that Shimano is pricing the OEM group cheaper without the direct mount 'link' in an effort to speed up the use of direct mounts. I want the 9150 however I refuse to buy the 9150 until I can get an OEM direct mount. So far I haven't seen a direct mounted 9150 even on Pro bikes. Strange.


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Calnago
Posts: 5765
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

What is the benefit to a direct mount? Actually, let me take two steps back and ask first, how does a direct mount hanger differ from a regular hanger and then... what is the benefit to it in the context of a normal road bike?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Thanks guys for sharing. I hope you keep posting your findings and assessments on this.
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Ax Lightness Vial EVO D
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