Dilemma: 2015 S-Works fact 11r or 2018 fact 10r

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Ptbojim
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:44 pm

by Ptbojim

I recently discovered a crack in my rear wheel dropout on my 2015 Tarmac expert and have now acquired a used 2015 S-Works frameset to get me back riding asap. However, with warranty replacement coverage, I now need to decide Between the new 2018 Expert fact 10r carbon frame or the 11r S-works one. Opinions on performance differences?
I see that Specialized offer the Expert line in both the new and old frame sets - with the SL5 offering a better group set. It has me wondering if the claimed aero benefits Of the SL6 design outweigh the gains of a DA group set over Ultegra.
3A711066-DEBB-4D57-9AF3-2106F64C9AC1.jpg

cycleboyco
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:19 am

by cycleboyco

I have the 2016 S-Works SL5 (to be sold) and the S-Works SL6-IMO, seems you would be getting aero benefits, a little more compliance from the dropped seatstays, and I do think the SL6 handles a little sharper. I would guess that the weight difference between the SL5 11R and SL6 10R frameset is minimal. Plus, it's newer, so it has to be better, right? :wink:

by Weenie


Ptbojim
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:44 pm

by Ptbojim

I don't know the weight difference between the 2018 10r and 2015 11r frames. That's 1 consideration. Secondly, the S-works has ceramic bearings, whereas the 10r doesn't. Ultimately, for overall head to head performance, Im left wondering how much gain in watts saved between the two frames.

rlanger
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:53 am

by rlanger

I have DA 9150 Di2 and absolutely love it. But really, the performance of the 2 group sets is virtually identical, with the DA set only having a slight weight advantage. I would go for the SL6 personally.

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TonyM
Posts: 1998
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

In terms of value for the money, go with the SL6 and Ultegra as the new Ultegra works exactly like the Dura Ace but weights a few hundreds grams more. The SL6 is said to be a significant improvement over the SL5 in terms of aerodynamics.

Ptbojim
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:44 pm

by Ptbojim

Does anyone here know how much a 150 to 200 gram weight difference affects time over 40k? I’ve read that the new aero Tarmac frameset claims a 45 second decrease in time over the older model (S5 10r to S6 10r or S5 11r to S6 11r models) If the S5 11r frameset is 175 grams lighter than the S6 10r frameset will the aero improvements of the newer S6 be negated by the weight difference?

I found this:http://flocycling.blogspot.ca/2012/11/f ... amics.html
1. If you are travelling 30mph, you will save 40 seconds over a 40k if you reduce the drag by 100 grams.

2. 50 grams of drag reduction equates to 6.5 watts of power savings.

It would seem the aero benefit of a new S6 frameset is not only completely negated by a 150 to 200 gram weight savings with the S5 frameset, but is actually slower by at least 15 seconds at 30kph over a distance of 40k.

NiFTY
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 pm

by NiFTY

The sl6 will likely be a better frame but realistically are you going to notice the difference - probably not. Which paint scheme do you like more is probably the most important difference.
Evo 5.02kg SL3 6.77 Slice RS 8.89 viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110579" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ptbojim
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:44 pm

by Ptbojim

Nifty, is the S6 10r frame better than an S5 11r? Do you know where I can find the actual weight differences between the two?

Found these on you tube:
https://youtu.be/v5BgsTpAf-A
https://youtu.be/uSRRIw9iSsc

That’s a 200 gram difference between the S5 11r and S6 12r.
Love to know what the 2018 S6 10r weighs in at. Is it the same as the older S5 10r or lighter???

HaroldC
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:21 am

by HaroldC

I’m going to guess the weight difference between the 10r SL6 and 11r SL5 is negligible. However, the SL6 will ride better: more aero, more comfortable and stiffer in the BB. Ultegra 8000 is very nice too. It performs as well, if not better than DA 9000.

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TonyM
Posts: 1998
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

HaroldC wrote:I’m going to guess the weight difference between the 10r SL6 and 11r SL5 is negligible. However, the SL6 will ride better: more aero, more comfortable and stiffer in the BB. Ultegra 8000 is very nice too. It performs as well, if not better than DA 9000.
This!

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

TonyM wrote:
HaroldC wrote:I’m going to guess the weight difference between the 10r SL6 and 11r SL5 is negligible. However, the SL6 will ride better: more aero, more comfortable and stiffer in the BB. Ultegra 8000 is very nice too. It performs as well, if not better than DA 9000.
This!
Exactly. Why would you go the older model...

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aqualelaki
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:12 pm

by aqualelaki

Ptbojim wrote:Does anyone here know how much a 150 to 200 gram weight difference affects time over 40k? I’ve read that the new aero Tarmac frameset claims a 45 second decrease in time over the older model (S5 10r to S6 10r or S5 11r to S6 11r models) If the S5 11r frameset is 175 grams lighter than the S6 10r frameset will the aero improvements of the newer S6 be negated by the weight difference?

I found this:http://flocycling.blogspot.ca/2012/11/f ... amics.html
1. If you are travelling 30mph, you will save 40 seconds over a 40k if you reduce the drag by 100 grams.

2. 50 grams of drag reduction equates to 6.5 watts of power savings.

It would seem the aero benefit of a new S6 frameset is not only completely negated by a 150 to 200 gram weight savings with the S5 frameset, but is actually slower by at least 15 seconds at 30kph over a distance of 40k.
I guarantee that you won't feel this aero benefits a lot. One can write this theory and it's interesting topic. Pro racer doesn't even care much. I have S-works 2015. If I'm in your situation, I would go with 2018. I like the look of it and it rides better, IMO. But if aero benefit makes you happier then I can understand as well.

morganb
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm

by morganb

Ptbojim wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 11:01 pm
Does anyone here know how much a 150 to 200 gram weight difference affects time over 40k? I’ve read that the new aero Tarmac frameset claims a 45 second decrease in time over the older model (S5 10r to S6 10r or S5 11r to S6 11r models) If the S5 11r frameset is 175 grams lighter than the S6 10r frameset will the aero improvements of the newer S6 be negated by the weight difference?

I found this:http://flocycling.blogspot.ca/2012/11/f ... amics.html
1. If you are travelling 30mph, you will save 40 seconds over a 40k if you reduce the drag by 100 grams.

2. 50 grams of drag reduction equates to 6.5 watts of power savings.

It would seem the aero benefit of a new S6 frameset is not only completely negated by a 150 to 200 gram weight savings with the S5 frameset, but is actually slower by at least 15 seconds at 30kph over a distance of 40k.
You are misunderstanding g of drag versus grams in terms of weight.

morganb
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm

by morganb

Also the actual weights of the S-Works SL5 versus the Expert/Pro SL6 is negligible. If you look through the thread here on the SL6 the frames seem to be between 925-950g. The SL5 S-Works rarely dipped much under 900g.

by Weenie


Ptbojim
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:44 pm

by Ptbojim

Morganb, can you explain the difference to me? How much time savings is gained by weight loss?
Thanks for the info on the weight differences btw the S5 11r and S6 10r. This certainly gives the edge to the new S6 10r with better aero gains.

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