Sram Etap and Cannondale SISL2 crankset - yes or no?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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westwood
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:18 pm

by westwood

I have a new Cannonale SuperSix EVO HM 2017 and SISL2 crankset.
I would buy Sram Etap but I was quite disappointed as many people have problems with front derailleur and cranks.
What are your experiences?

cooper
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:50 am
Location: California

by cooper

sample size n=1

I have 2016 HiMod and got eTap to work just fine with the Si crank and SiSL2 50/34 spidering, The clearance was close, but it worked. I have since changed over to a SRAM Red crank for a bit of weight savings over the Si crank. There is definitely a bit more clearance with the SRAM Red crank.

westwood
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:18 pm

by westwood

I thinking about why the SRAM cranks are okay and others sometimes have problems.
What are the differences between SRAM RED ETAP cranks and Cannondale SISL2?
SISL2 have Q Factor 147 mm and 43.5 mm chain line.
SISL2 cranks offset from the big chainring is 11 mm (center of the tooth)
Red cranks have a Q Factor 145 mm, but perhaps have a larger chainline.
Can anyone say how is the chainline Sram Red crankset?
And how big is offset from the crank to chainring?
In my opinion these are important data.
I think that if Red cranks have a larger chainline so needs to be adjusting screws more screwed.
Screws are then more hidden in the body of the derailleur.
And I think the other important thing is offset crank. The distance from crank and therefore from derailleur.
Image
Last edited by westwood on Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

sungod
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Location: it's raining, it must be uk

by sungod

westwood wrote:I thinking about why the SRAM cranks are okay and others sometimes have problems.
What are the differences between SRAM RED ETAP cranks and Cannondale SISL2?
SISL2 have Q Factor 147 mm and 43.5 mm chain line.
SISL2 cranks offset from the big chainring is 11 mm (center of the tooth)
Red cranks have a Q Factor 145 mm, but perhaps have a larger chainline.
Can anyone say how is the chainline Sram Red crankset?
And how big is offset from the crank converter?
In my opinion these are important data.
I think that if Red cranks have a larger chainline so needs to be adjusting screws more screwed.
Screws are then more hidden in the body of the derailleur.
And I think the other important thing is offset crank. The distance from crank and therefore from derailleur.


it's not that simple, the seat tube width and resulting fd mount position relative to the central axis are also factors, cranks that are ok on one frame may not be ok on another

westwood
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:18 pm

by westwood

Of course specifications of the frame are important.
Image
Image
But Cannondale SuperSix EVO HM 2017 model comes standard with Sram Etap with Sram crankset.
I would however like to use Cannondale SISL2 cranks and so I am interested in the differences.

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Dan Gerous
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Location: Montréal, Qc, Can + Hautes Pyrénées
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by Dan Gerous

As far as I know, SRAM only sells OEM eTap as a whole group for now, including the crankset... I thought that was why Cannondale doesn't put Hollowgrams on the eTap bikes, but...

I have the 2017 Evo eTap with the SRAM red BB30 crank with stock 52/36 rings... I also have a SISL2 with a 50/34 SpideRing on my Synapse, so both are on 73 asymetrical BB shells.

Disclaimer: I don't have the most precise tools to take measures but, the distance between the small and big rings seems pretty close on both setups (I think Cannondale made sure SRAM's Yaw Red front derailleurs worked when they released SpideRings and eTap and mechanical Red use the same Yaw tech and same cranksets). The chainline, with my non-precise measuring technique, seems to be a little bigger on the SISL2 with SpideRing... Also, mostly eyeballing it, there seems to be more clearance between the big ring and the crankarm on the Hollowgram? If I'm right, I assume the derailleur would have enough clearance from the arm... some have had issues with the limit adjustment bolts contacting the crankarms though but SRAM can send you shorter ones (through your dealer).

A friend of mine has built a new Evo with eTap and SISL2 with no issues but he uses a Quark spider and Red rings so that's not helping much.

Regardless of the crank used, the SRAM's front derailleur setup guide is not 100% good. You have to align the marks for the angle but the height mark seems a little off for most. The right setup seems to be aligning the tip of the tallest tooth with the bottom of the height guide mark, not have it just anywhere within that mark and forgetting the 2mm vertical clearance...

westwood
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:18 pm

by westwood

Thank you Dan for your advice and opinions.
It helped me to decide to purchase Etap.
This is a photo from my settings.
Image
I think it's okay. The gap between crank and FD is 3 mm.
I looked at a friend's setting Dura-Ace 9070 and he also has no more space between the Crank and FD.
At this time I can not try it on the road but only on the bike stand, but I hope that it will be good.
What do you think ?

octave
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm

by octave

hello,

i am new to the WW world and am hoping you all, since you were already on the topic, could answer a crankset question for a 2016 Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod. i just picked one up on close-out and am planning to strip it of its ultregra bits and replace it with SRAM Red 22 mechanical. i had originally planned to keep the 8-arm Cannondale Hollowgram Si crank, but am now considering switching it over to a SRAM Red BB30 crank... do you all have any experience running a SRAM Red BB30 crank on the new SS Evo HM? i am curious about: 1.) installation, 2.) shifting comparisons between the Hollowgram and the SRAM Red and 3.) weight comparison.

forgive me if this moves the thread in a different direction, but this seemed like a place where knowledgeable people were discussing a similar topic.

thank you!

o

cooper
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:50 am
Location: California

by cooper

octave wrote: i am new to the WW world and am hoping you all, since you were already on the topic, could answer a crankset question for a 2016 Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod. i just picked one up on close-out and am planning to strip it of its ultregra bits and replace it with SRAM Red 22 mechanical. i had originally planned to keep the 8-arm Cannondale Hollowgram Si crank, but am now considering switching it over to a SRAM Red BB30 crank... do you all have any experience running a SRAM Red BB30 crank on the new SS Evo HM? i am curious about: 1.) installation, 2.) shifting comparisons between the Hollowgram and the SRAM Red and 3.) weight comparison.


Saw your other post about considering a Wheels Mfg BB. I did that too. I replaced the stock BB on my 2016 HM (running eTap) with the Wheels Mfg PF30 (I have the ceramic bearing option). It fits great and works with both the stock Si crankset on the Ultegra model and the Red BB30 crank which I have since installed. Wheel Mfg PF30 thread together was 104 grams.

RE: Si to RED BB30 installation:
It's pretty straight forward although you will need a cannondale tool to remove the Si crank arms (cannondale tool KT013). You may also want cannondale tool KT011 to knock out the old BB with the plastic cups, but you could also do it without. Once you've got your Si crank off, the SRAM BB30 installation was smooth. FWIW, I used the stock cannondale dust caps on my Wheels Mfg BB. the crank installation went pretty smoothly. I did not use the little grey plastic collar, just the spacer shims and a wave washer.

RE: Shifting
I'm using the SRAM RED BB30 crank with eTap, not the Red Mechanical you're considering, but FWIW, the shifting is better with the SRAM RED BB30 cranks.

Re: Weight
As for the cranks, IIRC the stock Si crank (arms, spiderring, spindle) was around 630 grams with the Si spiderring. I replaced mine with an SiSL2 spider ring and it was still 579 grams. When I went to a SRAM RED BB30 crank, that was only 515 grams with the 50/34 stock rings.

TheDarkInstall
Posts: 723
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:44 am

by TheDarkInstall

westwood wrote:Thank you Dan for your advice and opinions.
It helped me to decide to purchase Etap.
This is a photo from my settings.
Image
I think it's okay. The gap between crank and FD is 3 mm.
I looked at a friend's setting Dura-Ace 9070 and he also has no more space between the Crank and FD.
At this time I can not try it on the road but only on the bike stand, but I hope that it will be good.
What do you think ?


Could be an optical illusion, but the gap between the inner ring and the chainstay looks bloody close.

If it is indeed as close as it looks, did you put the Drive Side spacer in place when you put the crank on?

westwood
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:18 pm

by westwood

Could be an optical illusion, but the gap between the inner ring and the chainstay looks bloody close.
If it is indeed as close as it looks, did you put the Drive Side spacer in place when you put the crank on?


Oh yeah, it's just an optical illusion. The photo is a little out of focus :)
The gap between the inner ring and the chainstay is actually 5 mm.
And the gap between crank and FD is 3 mm.

octave
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm

by octave

cooper wrote:
octave wrote: i am new to the WW world and am hoping you all, since you were already on the topic, could answer a crankset question for a 2016 Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod. i just picked one up on close-out and am planning to strip it of its ultregra bits and replace it with SRAM Red 22 mechanical. i had originally planned to keep the 8-arm Cannondale Hollowgram Si crank, but am now considering switching it over to a SRAM Red BB30 crank... do you all have any experience running a SRAM Red BB30 crank on the new SS Evo HM? i am curious about: 1.) installation, 2.) shifting comparisons between the Hollowgram and the SRAM Red and 3.) weight comparison.


Saw your other post about considering a Wheels Mfg BB. I did that too. I replaced the stock BB on my 2016 HM (running eTap) with the Wheels Mfg PF30 (I have the ceramic bearing option). It fits great and works with both the stock Si crankset on the Ultegra model and the Red BB30 crank which I have since installed. Wheel Mfg PF30 thread together was 104 grams.

RE: Si to RED BB30 installation:
It's pretty straight forward although you will need a cannondale tool to remove the Si crank arms (cannondale tool KT013). You may also want cannondale tool KT011 to knock out the old BB with the plastic cups, but you could also do it without. Once you've got your Si crank off, the SRAM BB30 installation was smooth. FWIW, I used the stock cannondale dust caps on my Wheels Mfg BB. the crank installation went pretty smoothly. I did not use the little grey plastic collar, just the spacer shims and a wave washer.

RE: Shifting
I'm using the SRAM RED BB30 crank with eTap, not the Red Mechanical you're considering, but FWIW, the shifting is better with the SRAM RED BB30 cranks.

Re: Weight
As for the cranks, IIRC the stock Si crank (arms, spiderring, spindle) was around 630 grams with the Si spiderring. I replaced mine with an SiSL2 spider ring and it was still 579 grams. When I went to a SRAM RED BB30 crank, that was only 515 grams with the 50/34 stock rings.


thank you for all the info! this is perfect. after seeing the weight difference between the SI crank with Spiderring compared to SRAM RED, i am def thinking of swapping it out! just a bummer that another special tool is required to pull an SI crank. i am accumulating more and more BB tools...

thanks again. if i pull the SI crank i will weigh it and report back. same for if i pick up a SRAM Red BB30 (probably in 52/36).

best,

o

Jepas
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:56 pm

by Jepas

Using the eTap FD with a Hollowgram SI (52/36) with not issues yet.

coneill0422
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:16 pm

by coneill0422

So I recently upgraded my 2015 Super Six Evo Hi-Mod to eTap. When I first got it installed the lower limit screw scratched the hell out of the inner drive side crank arm and I thought I would have to start playing around with shims of possibly a new crankset and PM (running a quarq and Si crankarms). Finally turned out that you just need the shorter lower limit screw and the whole system works fine without any problems (ground down the screw so it was below the face of the FD). I tested it out with a 1,000+ watt out of saddle sprint with no rubbing. hope that helps someone out.

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