Pioneer Vs Stages PM - advice needed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
SixThirteen
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 11:49 am

by SixThirteen

pdlpsher1 wrote:I have a Quarq and I'm very happy with it. However I have a short-duration dropout issue and I don't know if it's normal among the realm of power meters. Occasionally I get a zero reading on cadence (and hence power) for about 1-3 seconds. I cannot rule out my Garmin 510 as the culprit as I don't have a second spare head unit to test. Do you see such a thing on your power meter? From time to time I read people have dropout issues but I don't know what's the acceptable limit vs. a bad power meter. Since my power meter is on a wireless connection (ANT+) I don't expect 100% reliability all the time.


I have a similar problem with my setup of Powertap hub and 510. Due to previous problems with Garmins crashing, losing rides etc I also ride with a 920xt, and that seems much more reliable ie very few dropouts, missing data from the G3. So that suggests its a 510 issue.

In Golden Cheetah the symptom I look for is zero power, no-zero cadence and the speed repeated exactly, at least 4 times. For most rides I don't care about the dropouts, but for some eg intervals I do, so I created a Google spreadsheet to look for and fix the dropouts by simple interpolation. NB I used the Google Sheets because it can do nested boolean. Dunno about other spreadsheets, but I know LibreOffice doesn't as far as I can tell.

If you copy and paste from GC you get the following columns

Data Dist Pwr Cad HR Speed Alt Lat Long Slope Temp

so with these columns the checker which I put in column N is

=IF(AND(F7=F6, F6=F5,F5=F4,C7=0, D7<>0),"Fix","OK")

and then I made a template to interpolate depending on if missing 3 4 or 5 seconds of data. The format is

=INT(C7-(C7-C11)/4)
=INT(C8-(C7-C11)/4)
=INT(C9-(C7-C11)/4)

This works for a 3s dropout, you can adjust for longer dropouts.

HTH

Six13

Ozrider
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:06 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

by Ozrider

Image
Image
Quick turnaround by Pioneer Australia. I dropped the crankarm off at the bike shop Monday, back by Friday, fitted It onto the bike Saturday.
Easily connected to my Garmin 820.
Testing it on a 90-100km hills ride tomorrow.
Looking forward to seeing how much (or little) power I produce out on the bike, in comparison to ramp tests etc.


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Ozrider - Western Australia
Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
Chase your dreams - it's only impossible until it's done

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fa63
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

by fa63

The clerance to the chainstays looks really tight, or is that just the camera angle?

tlmsal
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 12:48 am

by tlmsal

I've been through the growing pain with stages. I've gone through 3 units but ever since they redesigned the housing I haven't had any problems

jrmynthn
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:27 pm

by jrmynthn

Was out today for the first time on my new v2 Stages. Didn't notice any drop outs but I wasn't staring at it very often. Whenever I did it was on. So far so good.

SixThirteen
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 11:49 am

by SixThirteen

[=INT(C7-(C7-C11)/4)
=INT(C8-(C7-C11)/4)
=INT(C9-(C7-C11)/4)
[/quote]

Here's some better code:

=round((N7-1*(N7-N11)/4),0)
=round((N7-2*(N7-N11)/4),0)
=round((N7-3*(N7-N11)/4),0)

which fixes the 3 seconds of missing data dropouts. Adjust for longer dropouts.

Or not use a 510.

GambadiLegno
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:26 am
Location: Spain

by GambadiLegno

I have a 2nd gen Stages. I bought it on November'15 and had some problems with draining batteries. After opening a ticket and sending an email, they sent me another new crank.

Since then, I've had some dropouts 2 or 3 times this year, but nothing else. I notice that this normally occurs when the battery is not having contact properly or when the Stages mobile app needs to be updated.

On the other hand, the Stages customer service, at least for me, is at top level. In fact, they've sent me another o-ring (I lost mine) with two new battery covers in 24 hours from Germany to Spain.

After having used a Powertap hub, and having friends using SRM and other brands, my conclusion is that every powermeter has issues. When you mix electronics and riding out with a bike, in cold and hot weather, wet roads and rain, crashes, vibration, etc...these things happen. For me the most important is having a good quality customer service when issues come.

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shoemakerpom2010
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:28 pm
Location: Palm Coast, Fl.

by shoemakerpom2010

I see a stages V1 on ebay for my Hollowgram cheap. Is it even worth it or just go with the new Pioneer......

GambadiLegno
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:26 am
Location: Spain

by GambadiLegno

If it's 1st gen, to be honest I'll go Pioneer.

glepore
Posts: 1103
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Pa USA

by glepore

V1 is fine if you pull the battery after a rain ride...otherwise it eats them.

I've had 2 v1's and for what I do, almost all intervals 30sec-20 min plus track np on long rides, they're fine.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Cannondale SS Evo Di2 7970 (5.79); Willier Cento Uno Air Di2 9070 (7.0); C40 Mk2 DA 7800 ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

Friends don't let friends ride stages

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reknop
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:15 am

by reknop

Ozrider wrote:I'm looking at getting a left side power meter - I'm a bit too old to take power too seriously or think of anything but masters / vets racing, but would like to get a power meter to try out.
My LBS has a special on the Pioneer left side PM. I've previously looked at getting a Stages PM.
Has anyone had experience good or bad with either?
I know that one side measurement is not as good as dual measurement, but I can always upgrade if I'm impressed with the results of training using power.
I'm looking for some feedback from someone familiar with power meters before ordering one over the weekend, so would appreciate any words of wisdom to help in the decision making process


The Pioneer Pedaling Monitor System is in my honest opinion one of the best technical power measurement systems on the market.

- The HDpower metrics is a feature that makes the Pioneer Pedaling Monitor System truly unique;
- Pioneer Cyclo-Sphere Analysis Software has build-in similar features as Trainingpeaks (power distribution histograms, or power distribution scatter plots) and can share you training data to Strava and Trainingpeaks;
- The Wi-Fi capabilities of Pioneer SGX-CA500 Cycle Computer make me really happy, no more cable spagetti for uploading training-files or upgrading firmware;
- Pioneer regularly publishes (firmware) upgrades for SGX-CA500, SGY-PM910HL Power Meter and Cyclo Sphere, improving the capabilities of the devices;
- It is one of the very few systems that can be upgraded to a dual sided power meter system;

GambadiLegno wrote:On the other hand, the Stages customer service, at least for me, is at top level. In fact, they've sent me another o-ring (I lost mine) with two new battery covers in 24 hours from Germany to Spain.


The customer service from Stages is indeed top level. A friend of mine had issues with his two power meters, but time after time the issues were resolved. Pioneer uses a local bike shop distribution and support model.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
https://www.remo-knops.com/cycling/

Ozrider
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:06 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

by Ozrider

The Pioneer has been working really well, it was really simple to link up with my Garmin 820.
I've just started training using power, so it is taking a little getting used to instead of just using heart rate.
Thanks for all the feedback, it has been really helpful.


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Ozrider - Western Australia
Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
Chase your dreams - it's only impossible until it's done

TheDarkInstall
Posts: 723
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:44 am

by TheDarkInstall

Hey,

So how is everyone's left side Pioneer going? My friend just had her 4iii order cancelled as they failed to mention on the site that they were out of stock, so she is back on the market for a Shimano 165mm left side crank meter.

Another question; the set up she will use is;

-Garmin 800
-Garmin GSC10 for speed and cadence

Will the Pioneer work alongside the GSC10? By that I mean will the speed and cadence be sent to the Garmin from the GSC10 and just the power from the Pioneer, rather than the Pioneer having some kind of cadence sensor overriding the GSC10?

Cheers!

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fa63
Posts: 2264
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

by fa63

I have Pioneer left PM, and use a Garmin 800 along with the speed and cadence sensors, and I am pretty sure the Garmin sensor overrides the cadence from the Pioneer PM.

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